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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 16:50 pm 
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Those of you that have my books or have read my mixes on line for Deep Bronze Green are advised that at present the mix I provided is now invalid. This is entirely due to Humbrol adulterating the basic H2 Emerald Green by adding white pigment to their formula. Despite repeated attempts by me to mix a tin of this colour I found that the resultant colour is a dull greyish shade that no longer has the deep green value as it should. The addition of satin and gloss varnish overcoat has no corrective result. The Revell alternative No.60 is no withdrawn so I am at present trying to work out another formula. Given the current quality of daylight this may take some considerable time. I spoke to the Humbrol representative recently about this and he vehemently denied any such practice, by my eyes and colour swatches tell a different story.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 17:07 pm 
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Thanks for the update Mike, I had hoped That their paint production would revert to Marfleet standards but recent tins Both enamel & Acrylic I have bought are still made in china; a couple of tins of Hu 5 just will not mix, both I and another chap I correspond with are having issues with certain colours; I recently completed a couple of AEC Militants ( 1/76thscale) which I wished to finish in gloss DBG- I tried a solution offerred to me by another modelling contact and used Xtracylic Mid Bronze Green with 2 coats of satin varnish - I am pleased to report I am very happy with the results, it gives just that suttle level of shade lightening for the scale. However for larger than 1/76 it may not be so pleasing.
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Dec 2013 21:33 pm 
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What's wrong with this?

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PostPosted: Tue 10 Dec 2013 18:51 pm 
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What's wrong with this?
The sample of the WEM colour I have is far too dark, black compared to the 1964 swatch in B.S. 381C. Checked in diffused daylight through a grey mask.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013 00:25 am 
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PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013 03:08 am 
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Mikestarmer wrote:
The sample of the WEM colour I have is far too dark, black compared to the 1964 swatch in B.S. 381C. Checked in diffused daylight through a grey mask.


That's odd, because WEM state that they adjust for scale colour, which means it should be lighter, if anything. Would it be a better starting point than Humbrol, anyway?

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Dec 2013 11:42 am 
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Give Xrtracolor or Xtracrylic Mid Bronze green with satin varnish a try- I think you will be pleasantly surprised


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 18:23 pm 
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Brews wrote:
Mikestarmer wrote:
The sample of the WEM colour I have is far too dark, black compared to the 1964 swatch in B.S. 381C. Checked in diffused daylight through a grey mask.


That's odd, because WEM state that they adjust for scale colour, which means it should be lighter, if anything. Would it be a better starting point than Humbrol, anyway?

That is not realistically possible since how can they possibly know what scale a modeller is working in. 1/76 models should be lighter than 1/35 scale models.


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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 22:27 pm 
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Mikestarmer wrote:
Brews wrote:
Mikestarmer wrote:
The sample of the WEM colour I have is far too dark, black compared to the 1964 swatch in B.S. 381C. Checked in diffused daylight through a grey mask.


That's odd, because WEM state that they adjust for scale colour, which means it should be lighter, if anything. Would it be a better starting point than Humbrol, anyway?

That is not realistically possible since how can they possibly know what scale a modeller is working in. 1/76 models should be lighter than 1/35 scale models.

Absolutely agree that it's not realistically possible, but I don't agree with scaling colour per se, either. At least, I don't subscribe to a formula, as there isn't a physical basis for it. If you scaled wavelength, you'd get get all sorts of shade-shifting going on.

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PostPosted: Fri 13 Dec 2013 23:03 pm 
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Brews wrote:
If you scaled wavelength, you'd get get all sorts of shade-shifting going on.


Unless you could shrink the viewer down to the same scale... and take into account the effect of gravity due to the theoretical hand pushing us out of the spacecraft... :cheers:

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PostPosted: Sun 15 Dec 2013 23:54 pm 
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Brews wrote:
but I don't agree with scaling colour per se, either


Whew, at least it's not just me. There are times I'd like to meet whoever it was who first came up with the concept and advise him, in the strongest possible terms, that he had no idea what he was talking about. Or to put it another way: physics doesn't work like that. (Colours do appear lighter in photographs when the subject of the photographs is smaller, and there is a perfectly sensible reason for it, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with size or scale.)

I guess this is wandering :ot: .

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PostPosted: Wed 25 Dec 2013 16:01 pm 
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Scale colour. There are for's and against on this issue, I am for and do it on all of my models that you may see on my displays at Duxford or On Track. The idea of scale colour is to replicate any colour as it appears from a distance, the further away the subject, the lighter the colour of the subject appears. This is due to atmospherics and that the human eye is flooded with reflected light from surrounding sources, not just the subject. Try this. Stand 5 feet from a red car and look hard at its colour. Then move to 50 feet away and look at the car. Is the colour at that distance of the same intensity a at 5 feet? No it is not, you simply know that the colour is the same and your mind tells you that. To effect scale colour many modellers add white or yellow to their mix or OOT paint. This is wrong. This simply changes the colour. You need to reduce the intensity of the colour. Simply add a small amount of neutral grey to your chosen colour. When you first mix the grey in you will be shocked at the dramatic change. Do not be dismayed as your colour will dry just right in appearance. For 1/72- 1/76 scale add 1/6th part of the whole real colour amount, for 1/48 then 1/8th will be sufficient for 1/35 then 1/10 or 1/12th is OK.

Still haven't made Deep Bronze Green yet although a coat of satin varnish over the previous mix is still pretty close. trials with four colours ongoing.


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Feb 2014 11:48 am 
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At long last I have achieved a very close match to B.S. 381:C No.224 Deep Bronze Green. This was compared to the gloss swatch in the 1964 edition of B.S.381:C 'Colours For Specific Purposes' and matt swatch No.224 Deep Bronze Green 1996 edition.
Mix Humbrols; 6 x H3 + 3 x H10 + 1 x H2. Be careful with H10 as even slightly too much will make your colour too dark and brown. My adivice is that if you are going to need this colour for several vehicle or bulk then make up a tinful.


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Feb 2014 13:28 pm 
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Well done, Mike. Regarding scale color--it's important to understand that this idea probably originated with somebody like me trying to buy house paint. You look at little swatches in the paint store, choose the color, and then, when you start to paint the house, it doesn't just look lighter, it looks A LOT lighter and brighter. It's an optical illusion, but it's a fearsome one when buying a lot of paint for a building. It can really trip you up.

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PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb 2014 17:30 pm 
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Dancho, paint swatches in a catalogue will always appear darker than they really are since they are small and presented on a lighter background. You should view them though a cutout in a grey card to get a better idea of the colour. I should have mentioned in my post that the Deep Bronze Green formula is full gloss. For a model of whatever scale a small amount of mid grey should be added and finished with satin varnish.


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