Airfix Logo

Humbrol Logo

The Airfix Tribute Forum was established in April 2006 to discuss the making of Airfix models.

Email: admin at airfixtributeforum.co.uk

It is currently Thu 21 Sep 2017 11:28 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 00:24 am 
Offline
Gold & Bronze Stars
Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 26 May 2006 14:20 pm
Posts: 3060
Location: Hampstead Garden Suburb
Ye gods, it makes you weep.

I've just checked out the Waterloo Gift Set on the Airfix website
http://www.airfix.com/uk-en/battle-of-w ... -2015.html

The painting instructions for the French cuirassiers are just unbelievably laughably wrong. Red jackets with white turnbacks? White horsehair crest? Who on earth did the research? They seem, quite honestly, to be based on the British Life Guards today.

Then there is the artillery. French artillery carriages and all woodwork was green. It wasn't Hu29. British artillery was grey - to be precise Humbrol Ocean Grey, which they know because they were asked to match a chip only a few years ago.

The hussar instructions repeat the errors of the 54mm hussar but at least they're consistent.

How, how can stuff so easily checkable be got wrong?

_________________
Connecting rooms and black sedans
613528


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 08:56 am 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
It is pretty inexcusable, especially considering the amount of data that can be found online (without actually asking any experts)
Maybe (I don´t know what the recommended Age range is for the set) they are aiming it at a younger audience ??
I like the idea of a egg yolk on the horse blanket for the Cuirassiers. :lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 09:22 am 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Wed 10 Oct 2007 13:18 pm
Posts: 10625
Location: Guist Norfolk
: Moderator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Airfix Modelling SIG Member
: Hawker Hurricane Nut
It's a Gift Set, and they have put in 22 pots of paint. I believe the principal aim is to make the history more accessible and fun
There will be disclaimer stating that you may want to use other paints to finish the models to a higher specification.

Maybe a suggestion to the company that more historically accurate guides be put up on the website in future, and the kit indicate a direct link to them for those who want them?

_________________
                 ,Total '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 '11
HURRICANE: 230 ,,,8,,,13 ,37  ,,9,,, 9   17          
SPITFIRE:     183 ,,26,,,,4,,,,4,,, 0    4   16        


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 09:38 am 
Offline
Silver Star
Silver Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri 19 Feb 2010 10:10 am
Posts: 1663
Location: Devon
While there's 22 pots, probably more than half of those are needed on the base and farmhouse, so like all gift sets and starter sets, they end up with a pitiful selection of colours to choose from and have to use those in the instructions. I do agree they need to start doing accurate or at least advanced painting guides on the website, I get plenty of aircraft starter sets for the different scheme they include, and end up referring to the base kit instructions where available.

_________________
Tom
My Works in Progress


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 10:07 am 
Offline
Gold & Silver Stars
Gold & Silver Stars
User avatar

Joined: Mon 01 Nov 2010 02:06 am
Posts: 4026
Location: Skelmersdale
: Model Portfolio
hewman100 wrote:
Maybe a suggestion to the company that more historically accurate guides be put up on the website in future, and the kit indicate a direct link to them for those who want them?


:thumb: an excellent idea for all gift/starter set with abridged guides.

_________________
John.
Kate "So what did Ducky look like when he was younger"
Gibbs "A bit like Illya Kuyakin"
IPMS member 13348. Airfix club IRWI54B955E
Portfolio W.I.P.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 11:30 am 
Offline
Site Owner
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 07:32 am
Posts: 61957
Location: Northampton UK
: Site Owner
: Administrator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
Last year Airfix advertised for a researcher. My application was declined. Its reassuring to know that I lost out to a more accomplished person :roll:

_________________
Living the dream
My Portfolio
My current Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 13:36 pm 
Offline
Gold & Bronze Stars
Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 26 May 2006 14:20 pm
Posts: 3060
Location: Hampstead Garden Suburb
It doesn't really follow that the painting guide was based on the paints included, because the correct schemes in all cases would require no colours different to those already included. Cuirassiers wore blue coats with red, yellow or orange coat tails; red and yellow are in there already. Likewise grey for gun carriages and trousers, and green for French gun carriages and the terrain board.

Simply looking at an old boxing of these figures would have produced more accurate guidance. Ot is such a missed opportunity - for nothing they could have provided multiple options schemes per regiment, for example. Different line infantry regiments, and so on.

I know this stuff I meant to be for kids but this level of attention to details is likely to lead to your products being dismissed as such, when really it could - at no cost - be a way to get another generation hooked.

_________________
Connecting rooms and black sedans
613528


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 14:37 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2007 02:47 am
Posts: 6793
Location: Minnesota, USA
: Model Portfolio
Wow. I don't really know what you're talking about but this kind of thing sounds exactly like the kind of thing that the new Airfix hasn't been doing. Too bad.

_________________
“Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to, and above all, have fun.”
- Al Superczynski (1947 - 2007)

dancho's model collection dancho's blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 15:28 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
Ratch wrote:
Its reassuring to know that I lost out to a more accomplished person :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 17:41 pm 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon 24 Apr 2006 12:16 pm
Posts: 381
Location: Burnley, Lancs
I rather suspect that anybody who is sufficiently interested in Waterloo to bother getting this set and go to the trouble of painting it
will know considerably more already about the correct colours of the various protagonists uniforms than any information given by Airfix.

Even if Little Johnny gets given it for Christmas by Aunt Flo he'll either not bother painting it, not worry about what colour anything is,
or realise that something's slightly odd when all the other Frenchies are wearing blue (like their football team, rugby team, etc)...

Andy

_________________
Because, you know we do it right
A mission every night
It's a Bomber
It's a Bomber
It's a Bomber


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 18:12 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Fri 18 Jun 2010 13:34 pm
Posts: 10189
Location: D'Dee, N'orn I'rn
: --------------------
: Group Build Guru
: AMSIG member
But there are always the people who have an interest and trust the model company to get it right as they [the buyer/modeller] doesn't have the resources of the dozens of reference books we keep on our shelves.

_________________
Al speling misteaks aer all mi own werk..
Its not just how good your painting is, its how good the touch-ups are too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 19:40 pm 
Offline
Gold Star
Gold Star

Joined: Sat 14 Oct 2006 08:52 am
Posts: 2176
Location: Sunny Devon
The biggest 'whoopsie' I ever came across was in the VJ Day boxed set. On one of the kits (I can't remember which one), the painting guide called for a colour that was out of production!

I still had one in my paint box though. Tee Hee.

_________________
Collectable kits built here. Baggies, blisters or boxed. You collect 'em, but I'll build 'em.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun 2015 20:50 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Wed 10 Oct 2007 13:18 pm
Posts: 10625
Location: Guist Norfolk
: Moderator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Airfix Modelling SIG Member
: Hawker Hurricane Nut
I leapt in with the answer that comes to mind with other Sets which have contained less paints.
If the correct colours are provided, then there is no excuse for them not being used in the right places.

_________________
                 ,Total '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 '11
HURRICANE: 230 ,,,8,,,13 ,37  ,,9,,, 9   17          
SPITFIRE:     183 ,,26,,,,4,,,,4,,, 0    4   16        


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 17 Aug 2015 18:31 pm 
Offline
Yellow Star
Yellow Star

Joined: Sat 07 Feb 2015 20:52 pm
Posts: 89
: --------------------
lightning f2a, can't belive it three very noticable errors on the 19sqn option, all can be seen as wrong in the first image that coms up when gooling the serial


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 03 Nov 2016 14:23 pm 
Offline
Green Star
Green Star

Joined: Wed 26 Oct 2011 13:55 pm
Posts: 194
I'm reading through past subjects so excuse the 'late' response!
I noticed that the suggested Humbrol paint colour for the undersides of the 1/48 scale bf109E7 Trop was '89'. I generally follow suggestions, but 89 was totally inappropriate being more like RAF Azure Blue than the colour it perhaps ought to have been, ie on both the colour paint guide enclosed with the model and artwork from the Osprey books on bf109s that fought in North Africa camoflagued with brown uppers. It may be that the suggestion has been corrected to tie in with the Humbrol Luftwaffe colours, where I think it's likely to be RLM78 Himmelblau? Or perhaps Osprey and those responsible for both the painting guide and the box art are wrong? Anyway, I wonder if there are any other examples of questionable colour suggestions made specifically what they were and what they would better have been. I know that the whole issue of model paint colour could [and probably does] fill a comparably sized internet forum, but it'd be interesting to know of any other glaring examples.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 03 Nov 2016 16:33 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 01:22 am
Posts: 12770
Location: Nanaimo. British Columbia. Canadia
: Group Build Leader
: Airfix Modelling SIG Member
inkpen wrote:
It may be that the suggestion has been corrected to tie in with the Humbrol Luftwaffe colours, where I think it's likely to be RLM78 Himmelblau?
RLM 78 it is, for sure. A much lighter colour than Azure Blue.

_________________
Portfolio


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 06 Nov 2016 23:14 pm 
Offline
Green Star
Green Star

Joined: Sun 16 Aug 2015 17:39 pm
Posts: 225
: --------------------
Brews wrote:
inkpen wrote:
It may be that the suggestion has been corrected to tie in with the Humbrol Luftwaffe colours, where I think it's likely to be RLM78 Himmelblau?
RLM 78 it is, for sure. A much lighter colour than Azure Blue.
By my reconing Azure blue is too dark for north african Luftwaffe. Pretty certain of that one actually

_________________
If life gives you POTATOS & LEMONS
Make VODKA & LEMONADE!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov 2016 12:33 pm 
Offline
Silver Star
Silver Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun 02 Jul 2006 21:44 pm
Posts: 1235
Location: NZ
: Model Portfolio
inkpen wrote:
Anyway, I wonder if there are any other examples of questionable colour suggestions made specifically what they were and what they would better have been.

Inkpen, Are you talking for the 1/48 109 kit or in general? This can be answered a few ways so I'll give a brief explanation and hopefully it'll make sense. Attached are the actual RLM colour chips
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/48/rlmmerrick.jpg

These show the various luftwaffe colours and are mirrored by the likes of Humbrol, Tamiya etc. The first issue is something that is generally known as 'scale colour' - though the colour is correct, applied on a much smaller scale it looks far too dark. This is remedied by adding % increments of white to 'scale' the colour to the size of the kit. Second is application, done by brush, the colour will be alot heavier than if done by an airbrush - so although colour is the same, the look on the kit itself is different. Finally, I had the same issue with the underside of the Airfix Spitfire Vb, colour was advised as 'biege green' when it was actually 'pale blue' (Spitfires Over Malta, Brian Cull). Also the pilot was in RAF blue, when warmer climates were RAF Khaki Drill with a yellow lifejacket for oversea operations.

The colours are recommendations based on research, however, being human it is often open to an individuals intepretation of that reasearch, rather than a committee consesus, which decides the colour. I say go with your own research if you find it differs from various other sources, wherever they are found.

_________________
"If i say 'eject' and you ask 'why,' you'll be talking to yourself..."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 14 Nov 2016 14:11 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2007 02:47 am
Posts: 6793
Location: Minnesota, USA
: Model Portfolio
inkpen wrote:
it'd be interesting to know of any other glaring examples.


Ah yes...the history of getting the colors wrong. I think that a fairly thick book could be written about it, as well as a forum. Right now we're living in The Golden Age of Plastic Model Kits, and the amount of material available for us hobbyists is gigantic. But in, say, 1960, the sources of information for the model builder were more limited. A lot of faulty information was passed around, not with malice but as the result of honest errors.

Then came the great revolution. In the 1970's somebody published information proving that Luftwaffe fighters had not been painted in the same colors as the bombers. They were various shades of gray, not green. This information had to be digested, slowly, by the collective gut, but it was gradually processed into the inevitable result of digestion-- energy, of course. And also money. Somebody realized that a person could sell a lot of books if the topic were "the next great breakthrough in the history of aircraft colors" and so the seed was planted for mischief. Yes, honest researchers struggled with genuine riddles, but if there is a dollar to be made dishonestly, then somebody will jump in to make it. Enter the age of "new discoveries" in color research every year or so. Suddenly everybody and his dog had an amazing new insight into "previously unknown" colors on aircraft that had only been photographed using black-and-white film. The gold rush was on.

Now it's not unusual to see every single new book claim a "new insight" into old color schemes. Just keep in mind that it's mostly just a way to sell books, which is becoming more and more difficult in the digital age.

_________________
“Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to, and above all, have fun.”
- Al Superczynski (1947 - 2007)

dancho's model collection dancho's blog


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

The Airfix Tribute Forum

The Airfix Tribute Forum - Est. 2006 | Make a Donation


modelsforsale.com