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tigercat · Black Star Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

There were 3 or 4 merchant ships disguised to look lik men of War in World War 2 and I believe many more in World War 1

1 of those from World War 2 was HMS Centurion that was disguised as a KGV class

Has anyone ever thought of converting a KGV into HMS Centurion disguised as a KGV

or is there not enough references

XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

Indeed, in the First World War there was virtually a whole squadron of merchantmen made up to look like the ships of the Grand Fleet - I have a book by Admiral Jellicoe which shows pictures of them (sadly too fragile to risk scanning) and from a distance it looks like they may have been fairly convincing. The problem was apparently that they were all different sizes and speeds and were difficult to keep together in a coherent way. One was torpedoed by a U-boat and the scheme appears to have ended there.

I imagine the KGV made to look like Centurion made to look like KGV would be difficult on the basis that the later battleship would have been somewhat bigger than the earlier one. A better starting point would probably be the Airfix Iron Duke - very similar shape to the slightly earlier King George the Fifth class, of which Centurion was the second to be completed, and not too much bigger. Iron Dukes were 614ft LOA while the WW1 KGVs were 589ft, and the WW2 KGVs were 745ft. In practice, the difference in length between Centurion and Iron Duke would be less than half an inch at 1/600.

There are some pictures of Centurion here http://www.maritimequest.com/wars...ships/centurion/hms_centurion.htm including one of the KGV disguise - seems mainly to consist of a mocked up A turret, cut down funnels and a camouflage paint job (note the bow painted to disguise the characteristic WW1 Dreadnought profile)

tigercat · Black Star Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

some details of her service

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/24/a4099124.shtml

http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/dummy_capital_ships.htm

dancho · Posted: Sat 31 Oct 2009 10:29 am Post subject:

In the present day, this type of scheme might discourage some Somali pirates...
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XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

Good thinking! Convoys and armed merchantmen might be worth resurrecting too...

I am certainly tempted to have a go at that Centurion conversion

tigercat · Black Star Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

Apparently there are some more details in a book called

Phantom Fleet by A Cecil Hampshire

XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

Good stuff, will look that up.

The photos of ships masquerading as earlier Dreadnoughts show that the wing turrets were simply mounted on a 'shelf' running alongside the foredeck. Presumably looked reasonable from a difference...

I wonder if there are any kits of contemporary merchant ships that could be raided to make a 'phantom' Dreadnought?

tigercat · Black Star Joined: 06 Oct 2009 Posts: 12

I tracked down Phantom Fleet in the Herts library system . An interesting read with some good photos.

Interesting stuff about the fake HMS Tiger that was sunk god knows what they thought when the wooden turrets floated off.

Plus some of the fake battlecruisers were used to bottle up the German converted liner raiders in American portswho were scared to venture out although the most damage they could have given them was a case of woodworm or maybe a nasty splinter