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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013 13:59 pm 
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The other day, whilst bored I was thinking to myself, what would be the best value kit you could get through the flying hours program?

So before I bore everyone to death with my mini essay I will list a few points.
• I know that almost everyone who will redeem Airfix flying hours will choose a kit that they actually want to build rather than take note of anything I write here (myself included).
• I am solely using the Airfix RRP as the base cost, as it is Airfix who run the club & you would be ordering through them. Other websites and shops may be cheaper, but Airfix website kit costs is a different argument.
• That to redeem any flying hours you have to be member of the Club Airfix scheme, and are therefore also eligible for the 10% website discount when working out any costs.
• That all series specific kits are the same price (so series 1 is £5.99, series 2 is £7.99). I know there are one or two exceptions, but for the majority of kits this is the case.
• I am using the current edition passport redemption rates rather than the old version which only lets you order up to series 6. So P&P is £2.95 and you can order up to series 8
I may repeat some of these below, as I ramble on…

Right so in my previously mentioned bored state of mind, I was wondering what kits work out the best value for redeeming flying hours?
The cost of each kit is depending on the series, and as a member of Club Airfix you are also entitled to 10% discount on any RRP.
While the kit itself is free when redeeming flying hours, you still need to pay £2.95 P&P for each kit, so personally I see that as part of the kit cost, rather than a separate charge, especially with the Airfix website offer of free P&P over a certain amount (currently £30). So in my eyes the cost of each kit is £2.95 with the rest of the kit cost subsidized by the flying hours sent in.
With all of this and the top points in mind & also using the opportunity to learn some simple excel spreadsheet formulas, I set to work figuring this out as shown in the table below.

Kit series kit RRP -10% end cost hours needed Effective
Discount minus postage worth of hour
1 £5.99 £5.39 £2.44 12 £0.20
2 £7.99 £7.19 £4.24 12 £0.35
3 £10.99 £9.89 £6.94 24 £0.29
4 £14.99 £13.49 £10.54 24 £0.44
5 £16.99 £15.29 £12.34 36 £0.34
6 £19.99 £17.99 £15.04 36 £0.42
7 £21.99 £19.79 £16.84 48 £0.35
8 £24.99 £22.49 £19.54 48 £0.41

So, using this viewpoint, the best value kits using are series 4 kits (44p per hour) followed by series 6 (42p) and series 8 (41p).
After working all this out, I thought, surely the flying hours that come with the redeemed kit would also act as a discount as you send off 12 hours for a series 1 kit, but then kit will also have a flying hour on it to use next time, giving you a 1 flying hour rebate on the 12 you have used, giving total use of 11 (12 hours used – 1 hour on new kit)
So to see what kit then gave you the best hour/cost value I decided to look up which kits in the 1-8 series range give you the most flying hours on the box.

In series 1 & 2, all the kits give 1 flying hour on the box, meaning you only really use11 hours and increasing the worth of a flying hour to 22p per hour for series 1 and 38p for series 2.

Series 3,4,5,6 and 7 tend to give 2 hours with 2 exceptions which I will return to & series 8 kits come with 3 hours
Which means:
Series 3 – 21 hours – 31p per hour
Series 4 – 21 hours – 48p
Series 5 – 34 hours – 36p
Series 6 – 34 hours – 44p
Series 7 – 46 hours – 36p
Series 8 – 45 hours – 43p.

Now the two exceptions are the series 4 Fairey Swordfish and the series 6 Herrick Land rover twin set which both come with 3 hours. Their revised Flying hour cost is therefore:
Fairey Swordfish - series 4 - 50p per hour
Land Rover twin set - series 6 - 45p per hour)

Which make these two and the series 8 kits the best value for flying hour redemptions


After working all of this out and knowing that almost everyone who will read this (including myself) will for the most part ignore it, I then thought of other ways people would decide which kit would give the most value. These are :
• The size of the finished kit
• The difficulty of the kit
• Amount of parts in the kit



After all that I then decided to go and get some fresh air and have a beer instead of working all that out.
What are other peoples thoughts?


EDIT - Totally rewritten to make a lot clearer to people (including myself)

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Last edited by Roo on Tue 04 Jun 2013 21:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013 14:11 pm 
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As you say; I pick what I want.
But I did do a similar calculation to yours and came up with the similar answers. But I didnt go as far as taking into consideration the newly acquired f/h.
How does the -10% for postage come in? Surely thats only effective if one spends over a certain amount of £ ? Does it affect a single kit sent for via f/h redemption?


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013 14:36 pm 
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fred wrote:
As you say; I pick what I want.
But I did do a similar calculation to yours and came up with the similar answers. But I didnt go as far as taking into consideration the newly acquired f/h.
How does the -10% for postage come in? Surely thats only effective if one spends over a certain amount of £ ? Does it affect a single kit sent for via f/h redemption?

For flying hours redemption it's a flat rate of £2.95 per kit, and is done seperately from the general airfix website. So while the kit itself is free, the delivery to your house is not. As there is still costs involved I thought it made sense to effectivly say each kit costs you £2.95, the rest of the kit value is basically subsidised by the flying hours.
At the moment I am waiting for a vampire and new tool hawker typhoon to turn up from the flying hours scheme. As I can walk to my LMS and pay £7.99 each with no p&p, I though it was better and made sense as there are still costs involved to say the kit was only costing me £2.95 each so saving me £5.04 each.

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013 14:57 pm 
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Yes: But I still dont see why you took 10% off the list price of the kit.
When I did my sums I took the shop price, which for my LMS is sometimes 50p less [irrespective of kit series] than the Airfix RRP.


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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013 18:58 pm 
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I explained (probably badly) in the first post. Every lms will give a different price. It is easier to just use the Airfix website price, especially as they are the ones running the scheme. Plus to redeem. Flying hours you need to be a member of the Club Airfix scheme, so you would therefore qualify for the 10% website discount, which is why i included it in the calculatons.

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Jun 2013 21:46 pm 
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To make my views and thoughts clearer I have rewritten the entire first post.

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PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2013 00:18 am 
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Exactly the kind of navel gazing I adore :-)

I somewhat go through this when redeeming FH, but I base the decision not on the nominal Airfix price, but on what the kits I'm after sell for on the 'bay. This is not simply because that's where they may end up. It's because if I can have one kit for a fixed amount of FH and another for a variable price in cash, I want to pay cash for the cheaper kit.

This reckoning is highly sensitive to what kits we're talking about. Say, for example, you wanted the Heinkel 111 and a new Fairey Swordfish. Both are series 4, but the Swordfish sells for as little as £7.50 or so including delivery, whereas the Heinkel has not gone for less than £8.45 lately and is usually about £11.

So you can own both kits by laying out 30 FH (or whatever it is) for the Heinkel and £7.50ish cash for the Stringbag. It makes no sense to buy the Stringbag with FH, because then you may have to pay £11 for the Heinkel. You end up with the same two kits but it costs you more if you do it the wrong way round.

It's instructive with these two kits that this happens. One's a spanking new tool and the other's ancient and dodgy, yet it's perceived as worth more. The Iron Duke is another ancient series 4 that regularly fetches more than the Stringbag, even though 1/600 battleships are supposed to be less popular than planes.

What you really need is an LP model that continually updates itself with current values, but I'm a nerd, and even I think that's sad.

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PostPosted: Wed 05 Jun 2013 00:36 am 
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Roo wrote:
Which make these two and the series 8 kits the best value for flying hour redemptions


You mean Series 4, although the Series 6 & 8 are still pretty good value. :D

Something else to consider in the calculations is "availability". By which I mean, how practical is it to actually get the tokens? For a working adult it probably doesn't make that much difference in the long run, but there are plenty of folk who don't get to buy as many kits as they'd like ... which means you might be better off going for the "fewer tokens" options regardless of value, simply because they're a more practical goal.

When I was a wee lad subsisting on pocket money, there was a significant and noticeable difference in price between Series 1 and Series 2 kits, to the extent that while I could get a S1 kit fairly regularly as the mood struck me, I very rarely bought a S2 kit, and anything more expensive would be a "special savings project" and was very rare indeed. Now, that was the best part of forty years ago and everything has changed (in particular the price difference between S1 & S2 seems to have shrunk) but translating my old experience into modern terms, I would hardly ever go for more than a S2 kit, I suspect, simply because of the difficulty in acquiring enough kits to get all of those additional tokens.

Still, an interesting bit of number crunching. :)

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PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2013 19:01 pm 
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...and don't forget the cost of the stamp on the envelope that you post the FH passport off in... :wink:

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PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013 20:45 pm 
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As the new tool Harrier GR1 is series 4 does it now replace the Swordfish as the best value for flying hours kit or merely join it on the plinth?

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PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013 21:01 pm 
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28Vanelli the GR1 is a "3" and the GR3 is a "4"

I generally regard even numbered kits as being better value than odd numbered as you are paying more in shops for the even (ie 2,4,6,8) than the odd (1,3,5,7) yet sending in the same number of tokens ....


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PostPosted: Fri 23 Aug 2013 21:19 pm 
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Thanks, just realised the error of my ways - doh! Will probably wait for the new tool 1/72 Lightning which is the page before it in the catalogue.

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PostPosted: Sat 24 Aug 2013 07:22 am 
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I believe the series number is linked to the size and complexity of the kit. I may be wrong, but this is how I see it:

Series 1 & 2: these are the smallest and simplest kits, Series 1 will normally only have 1 decal option and series 2 may be a series 1 kit with an extra sprue for a different version of an aeroplane.

Series 3 & 4: Larger and harder than series 1 & 2, but still quite simple. Series 4 may be a series 3 kit with an extra sprue, but it's generally slightly more complex than a series 3.

Series 5
Series 6
Series 7
Series 8
Series 9 +

All of these tend to be different subjects, generally going upwards in size and/or complexity with price points to match.

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PostPosted: Sat 24 Aug 2013 11:11 am 
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28vanelli wrote:
As the new tool Harrier GR1 is series 4 does it now replace the Swordfish as the best value for flying hours kit or merely join it on the plinth?

I did not put the age of the kit into account whatsoever, as what intrests one person, may bore someone else to tears. I worked it out solely in regards to the amount of flying hours on the box, the amount of flying hours you need and the RRP.
The GR1 comes with only one flying hour so it will work out the same as any other series 3 kit. As I said on the first post, the costs are solely mathmatical, with no leaning towards any certain kit.
The Swordfish and Land Rover twin set are only singled out as they are anomalies in the Airfix flying hour scheme with an extra flying hour on the box when compared to other kits in the same series.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar 2016 08:38 am 
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I noticed as yours is the most recent post ....and as I just joined the AF club ....does this mean if i can fathom out how the FH works .....as which kits i want that i can trade in the tokens from the built Airfix pile .or unbuilt pile...even the old ones (that thankfully i kept)

Does anyone know which kits offer the highest FH tokens

Sorry if this has been coverd elsewhere

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar 2016 09:45 am 
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Have you looked at the Airfix website? The number of flying hours is included in the detail of each kit.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar 2016 14:42 pm 
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What do you want to know Biggyinn? How many Flying Hours tokens are on each kit, or how many tokens you need to redeem a given kit? Dordogne Dodger is correct in that you can find out from the Airfix website how many tokens each kit has on the box. For redemption, the number of tokens required is either on the passport you got when joining the club, or it is in the club area of the website. Sorry if I misunderstood the question! There's an interesting discussion here:

http://airfixtributeforum.myfastforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=39132

I expect this'll be moved to the appropriate thread in a bit ;)

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar 2016 16:02 pm 
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biggyinn wrote:
.....as which kits i want that i can trade in the tokens from the built Airfix pile .or unbuilt pile...even the old ones (that thankfully i kept)

Does anyone know which kits offer the highest FH tokens
There doesn't seem to be much reasoning on which kits have what value of flying hour attached. It can vary quite a bit. eg. The Harrier GR3 has 1, the Beaufighter 2, but both are series 4 kits.
For redemption, currently series 4 are the best value per token.

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PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar 2016 19:50 pm 
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There's even the Swordfish (series 4) with 3 FH - the series 4 kits that come in the series 3 sized boxes tend to have 1 FH (early Harriers and the Lightning too) - probably using the same artwork template for all boxes that size, and no-one taking account of the retail price differences. All series 1, 2 and 3 are 1 FH, nearly all series 5 are 2 FH (perhaps excluding the Swordfish floatplane, and the Lightning F6 is 1 FH - another series 3 sized box), series 6 is usually 2 FH, series 7-9 3 FH, series 10-11 are 4 FH, most or all of series 12 are 5 FH (Type 45 and the 1:24 kits are, not sure about Javelin), then it starts getting quite variable between 4-10 FH for various kits at series 14 and above (Typhoon and Mossie are both 6, Sea Harrier FRS1 was 10 in the original release, not sure about later issues, 1:12 Bentley is 4, I think HMS Illustrious is 4 also, and the older Waterloo set - beige/grey boxing - was 10 also).

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PostPosted: Wed 02 Mar 2016 01:22 am 
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Now that there is a flat £4.95 postal charge per Flying Hour redemption, I thought I'd revisit Roo's calculation. The upshot is that if you redeem FH for single kits, you're obviously better off with the higher series kits to offset the higher postage. Series 1 kits are no longer really worth redeeming on this basis.

BUT! If you redeem the maximum 48 FH in a single order, the FH can be worth more than before; the best you can do is to get 4 * Series 2 kits, when each FH is worth 62p.

Note also:
- Prices have also increased since 2013
- There is now not a single price for a given series - for example series 2 kits weigh in at either 7.99 or 8.99.
- The number of Flying Hours on the boxes have changed too; S1-4 have 1, S5-6 have 2, S7-8 have 3, though there are exceptions...

In following calcs I have assumed that you choose the higher cost kit in the range, and one with the greatest number of FH on the box (to offset the ones you've just redeemed):

Kit series; Kit RRP; less 10% member discount; Saving after postage; FH needed; Discount per FH; Flying Hours acquired; FH used; Discount per FH

1 5.99 5.39 0.44 12 0.04 1 11 0.04
2 8.99 8.09 3.14 12 0.26 1 11 0.29
3 11.99 10.79 5.84 24 0.24 1 23 0.25
4 16.99 15.29 10.34 24 0.43 1 23 0.45
5 18.99 17.09 12.14 36 0.34 2 34 0.36
6 21.99 19.79 14.84 36 0.41 2 34 0.44
7 24.99 22.49 17.54 48 0.37 3 45 0.39
8 27.99 25.19 20.24 48 0.42 3 45 0.45
Quickbuild 9.99 8.99 4.04 24 0.17 1 23 0.18

And the various ways of redeeming 48 FH in one go:

4*1 23.96 21.56 16.61 48 0.35 4 44 0.38
4*2 35.96 32.36 27.41 48 0.57 4 44 0.62
2*3 23.98 21.58 16.63 48 0.35 2 46 0.36
2*4 33.98 30.58 25.63 48 0.53 2 46 0.56
(1*5)+(1*1) 24.98 22.48 17.53 48 0.37 3 45 0.39
(1*6)+(1*1) 27.98 25.18 20.23 48 0.42 3 45 0.45
1*7 24.99 22.49 17.54 48 0.37 3 45 0.39
1*8 27.99 25.19 20.24 48 0.42 3 45 0.45
(1*3)+(2*1) 23.97 21.57 16.62 48 0.35 3 45 0.37
(1*3)+(2*2) 29.97 26.97 22.02 48 0.46 3 45 0.49
(1*4)+(2*1) 28.97 26.07 21.12 48 0.44 3 45 0.47
(1*4)+(2*2) 34.97 31.47 26.52 48 0.55 3 45 0.59
(1*5)+(1*2) 27.98 25.18 20.23 48 0.42 3 45 0.45
(1*6)+(1*2) 30.98 27.88 22.93 48 0.48 3 45 0.51
2*Quickbuild 19.98 17.98 13.03 48 0.27 2 46 0.28


Summary
Best 3 combinations:
4 Series 2 kits FH=62p
1 Series 4 +2 series 2; FH=59p
2 Series 4 kits; FH = 56p

Worst three:
1 Series 1 kit; FH=4p
1 Quickbuild kit, FH=18p
1 Series 3 kit; FH=25p

Hopefully there are not too many errors in the calculations, and it's all just a bit of fun. And no, I didn't include the cost of the stamp...

Piers

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Last edited by pandrew on Wed 02 Mar 2016 09:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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