HMS Victory, Rigging a 'Ship Of The Line'

Brews

8" rope at 1:180 scale would be 1mm diameter.

Ratch

I don't think this will be the Airfix 1:180 Victory Bruce

JohnReid

JohnReid

Hi Guys! this is a 1/72 scale Victory that I rigged using this method.
When I had finished rigging everything step-by-step I had only 2 ropes that I had to belay to the cleats on the shrouds as access to the bottom of the masts at this point was impossible.
I kept a record of my rigging sequence that I had gleaned from numerous sources.There is a lot of info out there but as far as I know,no actual sequence of how to rig Victory or any other English ship of the line.
Rather than just throw out all this research I thought that I would share it with you guys.It will be only the bare minimum of information but it is the sequence that is important here.I have come to realize this over the years by the number of guys who have contacted me looking for this type of information.
It is basically a bare poles "harbour rig" with some additions.My Victory is a diorama type model depicting the ship in harbour just prior to hauling up the sails so I added things like clues,bunts and leeches etc.. to the yardarms.
Please don't take any of this as gospel ,double check everything.I am no expert in this field.
This is only meant as an aid for the novice rigger who feels a little overwhelmed by it all,I know I was.It is offered in the spirit of sharing what I have learned with my fellow modelers,nothing more.
At 68 my memory is slipping a little and some of this info dates back 30 years.For the past ten years I have been involved with building dioramas for the Canada Aviation Museum in Ottawa so I am not really up to date on what is available out there for ship modelers.I only know that by the number of modelers who have contacted me looking for this info that it probably would still be useful.
Please be patient this may take some time as I am still actively involved in modeling myself.
Cheers! John.

Beaufighter

Belay? Shrouds? Clues? Bunts? Leeches?

I'm still mystified!

JohnReid

Get a good nautical dictionary and a copy of Longridges book to get up to speed!

Sgt.Squarehead

Hi John,

I've modified the title of this thread slightly to make it clearer (& shorter).....I hope this is OK.

All the best
Sgt.S

JohnReid

Fine by me!

JohnReid

T16S

Oh dear- a supermodeller or rather his supermodel has appeared- I'm agog. What is to follow is likely to be a feast of detail seldom seen in the modelling world- look- wonder and praise! Don't give up take inspiration and try harder!
cheers Stuart

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

T16S

Crikey- even better than I predicted- congratulations it is a masterpiece!
I'm in complete awe!
cheers Stuart

wookie

When I first looked at those last two photos I thought I was looking out of my office window - which overlooks VICTORY herself!

JohnReid

The above is basically the amount of rigging on my ship.Bare poles "Harbour Rig" plus a bit more.The bit more consists of extra running rigging consistent with a ship about to haul up the sails and set out to sea,in this case just a few days before Trafalgar.Most of this extra rigging is attached to the yardarms.

Before attempting any rigging of the ropes, double check that you have in place all blocks,eyebolts,cleats etc...
There is nothing worse than to discover something missing and then trying to provide for it later when room for hands and tools are at a minimum.I call it "friggin in the riggin".

JohnReid

Spike

That's not a model it's a dream!

Would you mind sharing how long she took?

JohnReid

Hi Spike! I worked on it off and on between the years 1976-2000.

daniel7891

That is some work involved to get the ship rigged. Looks excellent though. I bet its a dust magnet

JohnReid

JohnReid

for further info please see my new online rigging booklet called :
Riggin' online booklet or HMS Victory,rigging,online booklet.

JohnReid

Thanks guys! nice to be back.
Cheers! John
I will be posting it here as well as a few other selected sites mostly for the benefit of the more inexperienced rigger.It is a book on the step-by-step sequence of rigging Victory or other English ship-of-the-line.
Hope you enjoy it! Cheers! John.

Please note: the decision to use harbour,furled or full sail rig has to be made very early in the process .I plan to discuss some of the full sail rigging options later.

JohnReid

Re: HMS Victory
In my opinion,HMS Victory,by Noel CL Hackney is the best by far as a guide to the step by step rigging of this ship and other English ships-of-the-line.It was written by a modeler for other modelers .I have all the other books on modeling Victory but this little book, that I paid $1.98 for new in a hobby store 35 years ago ,is the best.Unfortunately they now only come up on the secondary market and only occasionally and they want up to $150.00 bucks for it.There are only 7 libraries in the world that stock it and there was only one printing made in the English language in 1970,the others are in German.If anyone knows how to put a little pressure on the owners of the rights to this book,please do so. Mr Hackney was foremost a modeler and he went to a lot of effort to make sure this information was available to modelers.I am sure that he would be very unhappy today to see the price that modelers have to pay and to whom the money is going.I am sure that in his lifetime it wasn't him.
Check it out on the web ISBN 0 85059 053 1.

I personally used his book over a 30 year period when building my own Victory and I don't think that I would have finished it as easily or as accurately as I did without it.It is a real shame that it will not be available to future modelers.And no I am not selling mine.
Thanks Noel!

JohnReid

This will be a real time online booklet based upon Noel Hackney's method of rigging HMS Victory.
What I am attempting here is to fill the gap between nothing at all and all the experts.I am no expert myself and Victory was my first attempt at rigging a ship-of-the-line.I almost gave up myself until I discovered Noel's little book.Written for the inexperienced rigger, by a modeler for modelers of plastic or wooden ships,it is clear and concise on how to properly rig this ship in the proper sequence.I have all the other books on Victory,but they are all really confusing on where to begin the rigging and where to end.I hope this helps!This booklet is about sequence of rigging only.
Because I am doing this in real time ,if you would like to request a picture of a particular area that we are dealing with at the time please feel free to ask.Cheers! John.

JohnReid

Please note:
All my pictures are larger than allowed on the forum as I use them to make posters,however all my pics are available on my photobucket.
Cheers! John.

JohnReid

Step 1-Pendants

Longridge -Text P228, Plan # 8

Hackney-Text P61,# Fig 20

The first item of rigging to go on the lower masts are the pendants,each consisting of a length of rope with an eye in the end.On both fore and main masts there are two of them each of 11" rope(TPI).On the mizzen there is but a single one of only 5" (TPI)The starboard side is put on first with the aft leg of each pair hanging lower than the other.These pendants come down to roughly the third mastband below the cheeks.The single pair on the mizzen are single spliced instead of using seizings.

Step 2-Foremast shrouds.

Longridge P219-33 plan#8

Hackney P61 Fig 36

Note: there is a definite sequence for rigging the shrouds.

JohnReid

STEP 3-Bobstays

Longridge-Text page 226,Plan 6.

Hackney-Text page 61,figure 13.

Three bobstays are fitted between the head and the bowsprit.They are of 8" rope each one doubled and rigged by hearts and lanyards.The hearts are 14" long and the lanyards are of 4" rope.Two hearts are required for each bobstay.

Step #4

Bowsprit Shrouds:

Longridge P226 Plate 72 (excellent picture)

Hackney P62 Fig 13

Attach four 14" hearts to the bowsprit.Two collars of 8" rope each carry a pair of these hearts mounted one on each side of the bowsprit.

Step 5 Mainstay.

Longridge P220-21. Plan 8. Plate 74.

Hackney P62 .Plate 11.

Lead a length of 14" rope down through one of the two rear slots of the marines walk,down through the angled drilling in the knighthead ,through the large hole in the gammoning knee, up through the other knighthead and up through the other rear slot in the marines walk.Seize the two ends around a 26" heart .Then lead a length of 19" rope up through the maintop round the back of the masthead and down through the other side of the main top.Seize a second 26" heart in the free end.Lead this end down to the starboard of the foremast and reeve the two hearts together with 6" rope ,tying the end around the turns.

Please note:When the mainstay has been rigged attach a 16" single block to each side of its collar close under the main top just forward of the lower shrouds.These blocks will be used for the fore braces at a later stage.

Step 6 Main Preventer Stay.

Longridge P221-22.

Hackney P62 Fig 13

Install this above the mainstay in the same way as step 5,but placing the first length of rope around the bowsprit only and through the forward slot in the marines walk.Use 17" hearts and 13" rope for the preventer stay itself.

Sgt.Squarehead

You can easily resize an image using standard HTML code.

FWIW & All the best
Sgt.S

JohnReid

JohnReid

Step 7. Forestay

Longridge P221-22 Plan 8

Hackney P62 Fig 45.

Using a 9 1/2" rope attach a 26"heart above the bowsprit just ahead of the aftermost bobstay.Place a length of 18" rope around the foremast head .Seize a second 26" heart in the other end and reeve the two hearts together with 6" rope.

Sgt.Squarehead

Resizing images in HTML.

Ensure that the 'Disable HTML in this post' tab in the text window is not checked and simply insert the HTML line.....Preview your post to check it worked.

Set the width to 800 and height to 600 to keep the Forum's page format intact.

I've edited your very first post in this thread.....If you click the 'edit' tab in that post you will be able to check what I did.

HTH & All the best
Sgt.S
PS - It's a hell of a lot simpler than rigging!

JohnReid

Step 8. Fore preventer stay

Hackney P62 Fig 45

Longridge P222 Plan 8

Attach this stay above the forestay, use a 6 1/2" rope for the bowsprit collar just ahead of the middle bobstay,11 1/2" rope for the stay itself and two 16"hearts .Reeve the two hearts together using 4 1/2" rope.

JohnReid

Step 9 Snaking

Hackney P62 plate 11 (excellent pic)

Longridge P222 Fig 151

Using a 2" rope snake together the forestay and the fore preventer stay.The snaking is continuous from just above the upper hearts to just below the knot where the stays divide around the masthead.It is tied around one stay ,taken to the other and tied around that then back again to the other and so on.
The mainstay and the main preventer stay should also be snaked the same way.

Note: the snaking could be done now or later but sometime before starting the running rigging.I like to leave it till later Why? because I don't permanently fasten down the standing rigging at this time but do it only when it is all completed.

Paula & Dan

Are these references to some nautical texts that all of us Airfix modellers should have in our libraries?

Dan

JohnReid

Not all but those who are interested in rigging ships,in fact the Hackney book was commissioned by Airfix back in 1970 and it is now out of print.Anyone building an Airfix Victory would be more than happy to have access to this information.I am doing this as a gift for my fellow modelers. There is no other book like it out there on the
SEQUENCE of rigging a English ship of the line.Building this ship gave me a lot of pleasure, without this little book I would have never finished the rigging.

JohnReid

Step 10 Mizzen Stay

Hackney P62 Fig 45

Longridge P222 Plan 6Step 10 Mizzen Stay

Hackney P62 Fig 45

Longridge P222 Plan 6

81/2 " rope set up from mizzen masthead and leading forward and down to tie in a loop around the mainmast.The other end then ties off to the deck eyebolt aft of the mainmast.

JohnReid

Step 11 Mizzen Preventer Stay

Hackney P62 Plate 10

Longridge P222 Plan 6

8 1/2 " rope ,rigged as for the mizzen stay but the loop around the mainmast is made a little more than halfway up the mast.The other end ties off to the eyebolt on the deck.

JohnReid

deleted by me

Beaufighter

Gawd, this is an astounding level of detail.

Something I've always wondered about John and perhaps you know the answer. A ship like this has a triangular / trapezoidal shaped one at the bottom of the mizzen mast. Most plastic ship kits are designed so that sail is at right angles, near enough, to the others. Is that position correct? I don't understand how it can be.

Also - how do you make ratlines?

JohnReid

Hi Beaufighter(my dad flew those during the war

)

I would love to answer those questions for you but I am trying to limit this thread to questions about the sequence of rigging these ships.
Unfortunately I have only limited time to do this right now as I am finishing off some diorama work for the Canada Aviation Museum.
I am posting each step separately right now so that I can come back later and add more info to each post,when I have more time.
It is the sequence of rigging that is missing out there right now,the rest has been well covered by others.
Send me a private message if you like. Cheers! John.

Sgt.Squarehead

It's just hours of fun, fun, fun in here innit!

JohnReid

Step 12 Jeer Blocks, Fore and Main.

Hackney P62 Fig 41

Longridge Fore yard P241 Plan 8

Main yard P251

Jeer blocks are three sheave and they hang just below the level of the tops by means of a 7" rope loop around the masthead turns.These turns made first,are of 4 1/2 " rope passed six times round the masthead and through the mast cleat on the opposite side from the block,so forming a strop.These cross front and rear of the masthead.The jeers on the mainmast are 28" and those on the foremast are 26".

JohnReid

JohnReid

Step 13

Jib Boom Horses

Hackney P64 Fig 13.

Longridge 227,234 Plan 6.

Make a series of simple overhand knots in a length of 4" rope.Clove hitch the center of this around the outer end of the jib boom and tie the other two ends together around the jib boom behind the bowsprit cap.To look natural,allow the ropes to sag beneath the boom under their own weight .

JohnReid

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/...ictory%20book/Hackfigs003-1-1.jpg

Sgt.Squarehead

I've tidied up the deleted posts.

JohnReid

Oh! thank you very much.

Sgt.Squarehead

It's a pleasure John.....Keep on rigging!

All the best
Sgt.S

JohnReid

Step 14

Topmast Pendants

Hackney P 64 Fig 21

Longridge I can't find a good reference for this step in Longridge.
It is a single pendant of the type seen on the mizzen mast.
I will however try to find a reference and post it here.

It is a single pendant of the type seen on the mizzen mast.
I will however try to find a reference and post it here.
A single pair of pendants is fitted around each of the fore and main topmasts immediately above the crosstrees,in the same way as the mizzen pendant.They are 5 1/2" rope.There is no topmast pendant on the mizzen.
__________________

JohnReid

Step 15

Breast Backstays

Hackney P64

Longridge P231-32 Fig 162 (good drawing of the breast backstay purchase)

These are fitted to the fore and main topmasts only,one each side, they are 7" rope with an eye going over the masthead and a 14" block tied into the lower end slightly above deck rail level.A 5" rope is tied to the base of the first deadeye on each channel except the mizzen ones,it runs through the block,and ties off to the base of the third deadeye on the fore channels and to the base of the second deadeye on the main channels.

JohnReid

Deleted posts and drawings.
I have deleted some posts here and on my photobucket .I have decided to use my pictures only.No drawings or other material will be used as this is available from other sources on the web.It is really only the sequence of rigging that is missing on the websites and besides my drawing are lousy.Thank you for your understanding ,I am kind of learning about what works and doesn't work as I go along too.
Cheers! John.

Sgt.Squarehead

I've tidied them up and I've now resized all the remaining images too.

Have fun!

All the best
Sgt.S

JohnReid

Step 16

Fore Topmast Standing Backstay

Hack P64
Long P222

Three each side,of 7" rope.

____________________
Step 17

Main Topmast Standing Backstay

Hack P64
Long P222

Three each side of 7" rope belay to the foremost eye on the backstay stool.

JohnReid

Please note:
For large pics of the rigging please go to my photobucket.When on my main page scroll down the albums list on the port side.
Click on "Victory book" and there you will find large and very large pictures , in approximately the right sequence for rigging Victory.Remember these pics are of a 1/72 scale model blown up to make your job of rigging easier.Color,scale,small flaws and mistakes will be embarrassingly obvious to the expert but at scale distance to the ordinary modeler it looks fine.Remember this is a diorama and I did use some artistic license for overall effect.Anyway that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

JohnReid

The most important thing is the rigging sequence and that I can vouch for because when I finished I only had two pieces of running rigging that I couldn't place properly.I forget what they were now but because I no longer had access to the bottom of the mast I had to belay them to the shrouds.
After I finish the sequence of rigging I plan to identify the belaying points on the ship for each step of the rigging process that I am showing here.I plan to identify them by keying them to each step that I am working on now.The actual run of the rigging is covered very well by Longridge but he like all the others(except Hackney) is very confusing on the step-by step sequence,In other words the "how to..." of how the rig the ship in the proper order, which in this case happens to be how the real ship was rigged by her riggers at the time.Luckily for us as modelers it also happens to be the best method to rig a model. If you are not careful you can very quickly loose access to critical areas in all the maze of rigging.As a general rule I never permanently belay anything down until thinking it though.Sometimes it is tempting to want to completely finish a step without really thinking about it.A good example would be the shrouds ,do not finish them with laniards and ratlines until the end of the rigging process.You can finish them individually but leave the laniards(the ropes between the deadeyes} loose.I don't know how many times I had to free them to get access to the running rigging belaying points at the foot of the masts.The ratlines you will have good access to until the end so there is no rush to finish them.
It is very important to keep asking yourself "will I need future access to this area ?" and resist the temptation to "finish it " permanently.

JohnReid

Please note:
There is one exception to what I said about rigging the ratlines and that is the area between the futtock stave and the deadeyes at the top.Due to reasons of accessibility the ratlines that run from the futtock stave to the masthead are best installed before the futtock shrouds.See:Longridge P229 Fig 157 and Plate 63.
When climbing the shrouds to the top most sailors would use the ratlines attached to the futtock shrouds instead of going up the safer way through the "lubbers hole".( "landlubber")

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

Step 18

Mizzen topmast standing backstay.

Hack P64 Fig 11

Long P222

One each side 4 1/2" rope leading to the forward eyebolt on the mizzen backstay stool.

JohnReid

Step 19

Fore topmast shifting backstay

Hack P64

Long P231

One each side 7" rope with a 12" double block tied to the lower end.12" single becket block tied to the foremost of the two eyebolts in rear end of fore channels.The blocks are joined by a 3" rope in a luff tackle,the fall being tied back on the eyebolt.

JohnReid

Step 20

Main topmast shifting backstay.

Hack P65

Long P231

Same as fore backstay but the lower 12" blocks are tied to the main channel eyebolts between the ninth and tenth deadeyes.

JohnReid

Step 21

Mizzen topmast shifting backstay.

Hack P65

Long P231-32
Same as the fore and main but using a 4 1/2" rope for the backstay and 9" blocks with the lower single one tied to the single eyebolt on the aft end of the mizzen channel.The blocks are connected by 2 1/2" rope.

JohnReid

Step 22

Foretopmast preventer stay

Hack P65

Long P222

Tie one 12 " single block to the base of the port knighthead.Tie one end of a 6 1/2" rope around the foretopmast head.The lower end is led through the hole in the port bee.A single becket block is tied to its end.The two blocks are connected with a 3" rope in a gin-tackle,with the fall around the knighthead.

Please Note:
that you have to jump around from one page to the other when following Longridge,Hackney however is consistently step-by-step.This is the beauty of Hackney's book.

JohnReid

Step 23

Foretopmast stay

Hack P65

Long P222

Tie a 12" single block to the base of the starboard knighthead.Rig the stay as in step 22 but using a 8 1/2" rope.Lead it through the hole in the starboard bee and connect the blocks with a 3 1/2" rope,belaying the fall around the knighthead.

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

My Reference Source for this thread is Hackney's book.
He lists his reference sources as the following:
Published
The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships
Longridge

HMS Victory;Building ,Restoration and Repair
Bugler

Unpublished
Admiralty rigging charts and deck diagram at Portsmouth Dockyard.

Observation
Detailed examination of HMS Victory in Trafalgar condition at Portsmouth Dockyard

Discussions with
The Captain and ship's company of HMS Victory
The Master Rigger and his staff at Portsmouth Dockyard
The Curator and staff of the Victory Museum

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

Here is a better pic of steps 15 and 16.

JohnReid

Note:The Topmast Backstays
The fore and main topmasts each have five backstays on both the port and starboard sides.The miizzen topmast has only two.
There are three types of topmast backstays,-Breast
-Standing
-Shifting

JohnReid

JohnReid

Fore Topmast Backstays.
The fore to aft sequence for rigging the backstays at the foremast port channel:

1-Breast backstay eyebolt-between deadeye 1 and 2.

2-Standing backstay 1-4th deadeye.

3-Standing backstay 2-10th deadeye.

4-Standing backstay 3-14th deadeye.

5-Shifting backstay-eyebolt just aft of 15th deadeye.

The foremast port channel is similar.

JohnReid

Main Topmast Backstays.

1-Breast backstay eyebolt -same as foremast.

2-Standing backstay 1-same as foremast.

3-Standing backstay 2-8th deadeye.

4-Standing backstay 3-1st deadeye on stool.

5-Shifting backstay-same as foremast.

JohnReid

Mizzen Topmast Backstays.

1-Standing backstay-1st deadeye on mizzen stool.

2-Shifting backstay-eyebolt at aft end of the mizzen channel.

JohnReid

JohnReid

Deadeye sizes 1:1 scale (diameter in inches)

Fore lower 18

Fore topmast 12

Main lower 18

Main topmast 12

Mizzen lower 14

Mizzen topmast 8

JohnReid

JohnReid

Please note:
There are other eyebolts to be installed on the channels of which I will refer to later.For purposes of clarity I didn't show there locations at this time.You may however want to install them on the channels before any rigging takes place.

As you can see my diagrams are a work in progress.I am learning this stuff as I go along.Any hints or tips are welcome.

JohnReid

Step 24

Main topmast stay.

Hack P65

Long P223 Plan6

Using 8 1/2" rope rig the upper end using the same method.The lower end is tied in a loop around the foremast just under the supports for the top.Its free end is tied off to the deck eyebolt aft of the foremast.

Step 25

Hack P65

Long P223 Plan 6

6 1/2" rope is rigged around the masthead led down through the single block at rear of the foremast head and belays to the deck eyebolt.

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

JohnReid

Please note:

Somewhere down the road I intend to go back and edit each step to include rope sizes,actual run of the rigging and belaying points of both the standing and running rigging and any other useful info that I can think of.Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.Cheers! John.

JohnReid

Step 26

Mizzen Topmast Stay

Hack P65

Long P223 Plan6

5 inch rope tied once around the masthead just at the bottom of the supports,brought down behind the mainmast and tied off around it again halfway between the second and third mastbands below the top supports.

JohnReid

Step 27

Topgallant Shrouds

Hack P65

Long P233 Plan6

These are of 4" rope on the fore and main and 2 1/2"on the mizzen.

JohnReid

JohnReid

Note: the running rigging is pulling too hard on the mizzen stay and distorting it,this stay is heavy and should show more weight.