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Sgt.Squarehead

I'm not convinced that a vote of 'Single Kit Build vs Theme Build' makes any sense at all.....It strikes me as the best way of getting almost the minimum possible number of satisfied participants in each GB.

Lots of people might all vote for a single kit GB, but with completely different kits in mind. After a second round poll, the most popular single kit is chosen, resulting in only a fraction of the single kit voters being satisfied with the end result and thus participating.**

The argument that everyone building the same kit will help to solve problems just doesn't stand up. Many of those choosing to build a given kit may well have chosen it simply because they have never built it before. Ideas and suggestions are every bit as likely from outside the GB as they are from within it.

Surely it makes sense that broader themes will always give us a larger number of participants and result in a much more varied and interesting gallery.

Just some thoughts, all the best
Sgt.S
** Hardcore GBers excepted.

AFCBGeorge · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 12:37 pm Post subject:

I agree completely with this, if only 13 vote for a single subject build then realistically with the amount of suggestions that are popping up for kits- 3 or 4 votes could win the poll- which has left 3 or 4 out of 30 or 40 votes getting what they wanted to do. 10-15% isn't a lot of satisfied people. I did think it seemed a bit ludicrous but as it's established I thought I'd better not rock the boat being a newbie

Glad someone else has raised this.

Richard M · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 12:39 pm Post subject:

It's not the quantity, it's the quality

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I think there is room for both types of GB, and this is a subject GB so does give the option of different scales and kits. It's been a while since we did one and people seem to want one.

As the theme GB ran a close second I think it's safe to say we'll be running one of those next, but after we sort out the subject and dates for this one.

Best
Rich
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Rich
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Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 13:17 pm Post subject:

It was recent GBs that prompted my thoughts, but the wider principle that they were primarily concerned with.

I feel that active participation is a major part of what makes modelling forums fun.....Even if my own efforts do proceed at a pace that is glacially slow compared to most!

I've been mulling over the Idea of 'Airfix Boxart GB/Special Build'.....I'm sure the parameters are self explanatory!

All the best
Sgt.S

thomasweir · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 13:33 pm Post subject:

The multi scale Harrier build which finished earlier this year was a great success with 17 participants and 25 Harriers built. If you pick the right subject to build then you'll get a lot of interest.

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 13:45 pm Post subject:

Fair comment!

ColinM

Ratch · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 16:56 pm Post subject:

I think we should have a balance between specific subject and general theme builds

both have advantages

When a specific subject is built (like the Harrier, Hurricane & RAF Rescue Launch for example) the participants share the experience and overcome similar problems. The specific subject should be selected from the current Airfix catalogue, that way if its not in your stash it can be easily acquired

On a theme build, it gives an opportunity to build something that might be long out of production, that might not normally receive enough support for a specific subject. The 'shared experience' might not be so prevalent with this type of GB, but a wide variety of subjects usually built

I wouldn't want to do theme builds exclusively, and maybe specific subject GB's might be less well supported, but that is down to the kit chosen

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Flash Flash · Silver Star Joined: 16 May 2006 Posts: 2938

I prefer single kit build because I learn more skills!

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Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 17:21 pm Post subject:

I really dont buy the 'single kit build = shared experience' thing at all!

As I said before, from what I've seen, help and advice is as likely to come from outside the group as within.

I'm not too worried either way, but I thought I should raise the point as it seemed an issue worthy of general discussion.

All the best
Sgt.S

thomasweir · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 17:36 pm Post subject:

Richard M · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 17:56 pm Post subject:

Running GB's is a balancing act between several factors, amongst which are;

A subject people are interested in.
A subject people can obtain.
A subject people can afford.
Diverse and varied subjects so everyone gets the chance to participate in a subject they have an interest in sooner rather than later.
A sensible calendar timetable so people don't suffer GB fatigue.

We could easily cram GB's in, but I think that would have the opposite effect and everyone would get fed up. The aim isn't maximum participation in every GB, but to offer forum members the opportunity to join in a GB of their liking. Therefore, I feel a balanced and varied programme works well.

I think it is possible to overlap some of the GB's (as we have done in the past), and I'll be looking to this for the mil air GB's. I'm also looking to run more Special GB's each year (in addition to the annual ATF Anniversary GB and summer Campaign GB), which are multidisciplinary.
Best
Rich
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Best
Rich
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"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die."

Visit my PORTFOLIO

Ratch · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 18:03 pm Post subject:

I'd imagine that the subject group will also have a bearing on whether single subjects or themes will be more prevalent

Aircraft Military - what a huge range to chose from

single subjects are more likely to be those widely available in more than one scale and themes will always be popular, so a mixed bag here

Aircraft Civil - single subjects are more likely here with the myriad of aftermarket decals to produce alternative liveries

Cars, Bikes & Railways - equal chances here, I'd imagine Think

Dioramas & Figures - much more likely to be builds on themes Juggling

Military Vehicles - I'd expect mostly single subject builds here

Ships & boats - again, I'd expect predominantly single subject builds
Space, Sci-Fi & Robogear - probably mostly theme builds in this category

Specials - almost certainly theme builds with the odd single subject thrown in

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kitnut617 · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 18:09 pm Post subject:

For myself I don't like 'single' subject builds, the simplest way to explain why is this, I've been to a number of model shows in the past and as I walk in the door I see hundreds of models on display which is good. But then I find there's a whole table which goes from one end of the hall to the other and all that's there is the same single subject. There might be a hundred or more of them but once I've got done looking at the fourth or fifth model, I've had enough, I want to see something different. It then takes less than an hour to see what else there is and then I'm out of there. I can't imagine what it would be like going to one of these really big shows where you pay premium dollars to get into and then have to face something like that.

Same thing here I'm afraid, when there's only one subject in the group build, I tend to switch off to it. reason for my comments on the recent 'nightfighter' GB that's been proposed, until it was pointed out that conversions were included. But if that GB is purely OOB, there's not a lot of subjects.
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BAC · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 18:17 pm Post subject:

I don't do a huge amount of GB's, I tend to get on with my own personal collections of various themes. But now and then I do get involved, usually if it's a subject that 'fit's in' with what's on my 'to do' list.

For example I make the odd airliner, so if there is a GB for airliners I usually join up to help support it.

The current 'Cold War Jets GB' interest me (although I've yet to begin this), as there are a number of jets that I'd like to build that were on my 'Airfix's Forgotton Jets' thread which arn't often seen. So it makes sense to do one.

I also joined the 'Carrier' build as I like doing them (I can't decide whether I'll do 'Victorious' or 'Moskva').

Single build GB's generally don't interest me. Yes it can be interesting to read how different people do the same kit but I usually don't sign up. If for example the Carrier GB was a 'HMS Ark Royal' GB then I definately wouldn't do it as I've already made this in the past -twice!

Just my two quids worth (inflation is up!)

Cheers!
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Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 18:17 pm Post subject:

As I said, I'm none too worried, as my participation in any given build is strictly limited by available time and space.....In the diorama GB beginning tomorrow, I will be building smaller bits and pieces rather than a true diorama, because that is all I have space to work on at present.

I've got a dozen or so hollow doors in the garage ready for routing into trench networks, sunken roads, river-crossings and all manner of wargamey goodness.....But, at present, I don't have the space to work on them, let alone store them when they are finished.

All the best
Sgt.S

AFCBGeorge · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 23:24 pm Post subject:

I think there's much to be said for running a theme build & a single subject build in parallel. it raises the % of people who got what they voted for from around 10% to appx 50% by a quick estimation.
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Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Tue 14 Oct 2008 23:34 pm Post subject:

Perhaps we should alternate between 'Themed' and 'Single-Type' builds for a while and see how things progress.

Just a thought, all the best
Sgt.S

hewman100 · Posted: Wed 15 Oct 2008 09:25 am Post subject:

Sounds interesting Sarge.

This situation is predominately based in the Military Aircraft GB area though as I see it.

How about staggering the start dates: Theme build and then a Single subject to start a month later?

As most builds are two months long if someone wants to participate in both there's not so much of a problem, is there?

I'm not taking part in the next MA GB because it's Cold War Jets, but if a single subject build I fancied started the following month......
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stuzzar · Posted: Wed 15 Oct 2008 09:58 am Post subject:

As I understand it the original idea and purpose of group builds was for all participants to share the experience of building the same kit. This has over time been adapted to the various types of build as detailed in the Group Builds FAQ section.

Personally speaking I am happy to participate in any type of build that takes my interest and would rather continue the practice of voting for the type of build rather than alternating between single kit and themed, in fact if you look in the FAQ section you will see there are far more Group Build types to choose from.

I do agree that the ‘single kit build’ option in a poll can be further thinned down as subjects for that build are chosen so perhaps it would be better to state the options for single kit builds from the outset ie Spitfire build, HMS Hood build or as we have at the moment in the military vehicle section, Lee/Grant tank build, which incidentally seems to be the most popular choice.

All in all I believe that we have a pretty good system going for selecting the subjects for group builds, of course there is no reason why tweaks shouldn’t be made to it where things are not working but I do feel that the single kit build should remain as a valid option to be suggested and voted on by the forum members perhaps with the small change mentioned above

.

Cheers

Stu