- The Airfix Tribute Forum -

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Wed 05 Nov 2008 06:55 am Post subject:

Amazing looking 'Spit-ning/Light-fire' concept there HT.....Is there any chance you could rejig it with twin Peregrines and four 20mm cannon.....A possible alternative to the Whirlwind perhaps? Think

Just a thought, all the best
Sgt.S
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XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

Hangartime · Posted: Wed 05 Nov 2008 10:28 am Post subject:

Well if I put up what I've been playing around with - some are quite radical, others more realistic and others again are pretty wild.

Bristol Centaurus pusher engine - 5 close group front cannons. 1/48 or 1/72 kit - some scratchbuilding.

British Lightning - Bristol Centaurus supercharged (!), this was actually rejected by the RAF due to the aircraft having 2 props swinging the same direction - Air Ministry wasn't keen on that at the time. Airfix 1/72 kit along with the Airfix Fury release.

Canberra - the Grand Slam Carrier, stretched and double the power - using 1/72 Airfix Canberra kit as a base. Bigger tip pods for more fuel.

Re the Spitfire getting rejigged - the Peregrines were unreliable - maybe if they had gone the the Merlin after all? Or a T tail single seat Mossie?

Sky literally is the limit. Ok then - twin supermarine

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XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

Fantastic stuff Hangartime!!!! Amazing pictures. We should do a group build just on those.

Topgun. I couldn't get your biplane Spit out of my head so I've been thinking of a scenario.

In 1925, R.J. Mitchell's cutting-edge Schneider Trophy monoplane the Supermarine S4 crashed in practice. The pilot, Henri Biard, was lucky to escape with his life and the experience profoundly shook Mitchell. He resolved to return to the biplane format for his next racer, the S5. The result was a very clean, single-bay cantilever biplane with no bracing wires - the wings, fuselage and struts formed a 'box' that was very rigid. The wingspan was a great deal shorter than the S4 and the wings were very thin with radiators recessed into the surfaces. The S5 narrowly beat the American Curtiss and British Gloster biplanes and the radical Italian monoplane Macchis in 1927, bringing the Schneider Trophy back to Britain.

In 1930, the Air Ministry issued a specification for a day and night fighter. The requirements in terms of landing speed and distance were stringent, so Mitchell decided to go with a biplane layout again based structurally on the S5. This had straight-tapered wings with rounded tips, of which the lower wing was cranked to shorten the fixed, trousered undercarriage. It lost out to the Gloster Gladiator, but Mitchell returned to the drawing board to refine the design.

He shortened the wings and cleaned up the design aerodynamically with retractable undercarriage. The need to fit eight guns led to a lengthening if the wing chord, eventually resulting in the famous elliptical profile. The two wings were close-set, with the upper joining the fuselage just under the cockpit. Pilot visibility was not good, but the design was strong and offered a short take-off and landing. The Air Ministry indulged Mitchell, though their clear preference was for the monoplane Hurricane. Mitchell's fighter (named the 'Shrew' in 1937) was ordered as insurance against the failure of the Hurricane. It was slightly slower, and was less good as a gun platform but had a better roll rate and climb-to-height.

After the Battle of Britain, Fighter Command began phasing out the Supermarine Shrew, in favour of Hurricane MkIICs and the new Typhoons. Shrews continued to see service in the Mediterranean, Far East and North Africa, and some remained on strength until the end of the war.

How's that?

jhl1908 · Posted: Wed 05 Nov 2008 17:38 pm Post subject:

I can only say...

Jesper.

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Wed 05 Nov 2008 18:30 pm Post subject:

Would this be a 'Twitfire'?

Amazing creations HT.....Can't wait to see one in the plastic!

All the best
Sgt.S
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AFCBGeorge · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 01:52 am Post subject:

I'm in for this one.
1942, Fairey Fulmar is withdrawn from carrier service as it's replaced by a combination of Barracuda's Martlett's & Seafire's all of which are superior. They are made land based, given a turret a la defiant & sent on night fighter duty. Not particularly original but should be a fun build.

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XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

walrus · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 09:24 am Post subject:

having seen some brilliant and creative thoughts here, my idea though do-able in the timeframe, is lame in comparison- thanks for knocking my self esteem into touch!

really looking forward to seeing some of these ideas realised in practice.

Hangartime · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 09:39 am Post subject:

I think it's fair to say the only viable option in reality is the Lightning here. Taking into account aeronautical variables the other ideas bring about a whole new set of problems.

It's a fun build so whatever you want goes, sane, whacky or wild.

For me personally, I will be stricter on myself as it will be an actual and accurate history with aircraft weight, tolerences and history taken into account along with political situations. All references to be included to back it all up - but that's just for me anyway.

My build will be a post war aircraft - piston engined - one the final variants before a new era of the jet age, built specifically as an interceptor for smaller economic nations with limited budgets to compete against some of the newer jets of the day.

Cheers

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XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

Nice work! I was expecting it to be a lot more nose heavy in appearance. Makes me wonder if the Merlin in the 'real' Buchon could have been packaged a sight better than it was.

Manages to evoke a Spitfire, a 109 and a Buchon all at the same time. What colour scheme are you going for?

BTW what armament was the Griffon Buchon fitted with?

walrus · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 11:23 am Post subject:

Will the tail fin be increased in area at all HT?

Also a while back, Mike McCavoy in a Tailpiece in SAM wrote about a german crosskitting of a bf 109 and a spit (merlin engine) with a couple of tiny illustrations, just wondered if you had seen this somewhere?

walrus · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 14:33 pm Post subject:

had another idea for a wiffery - may need some technical help pretty please?

What if the new RN carrier was to be equipped with navalised Sea Tiffies instead if the JSF STOVL that will apparently melt the carrier deck?

again it probably isn't much of a conversion but might be fun and i have an airfix eurofighter

any suggestions would be welcome.

XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

walrus · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 16:50 pm Post subject:

Thanks XN923- there are a couple of things i hadn't though of - especially the canards obscuring the view!

Had thought of extended front leg- Phantom FG1 style, + spools etc.

the folding wings however not sure as the QE is big was wondering if she would be spacious enough- will research- possibly outer wings would fold alla F-18.

gives me something feasible and not too taxing, so will put my monika down. the hurri was only really a paint job which i can do for the sheer fun of it any time.
thanks for the advise- much appreciated

Hangartime · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 19:59 pm Post subject:

walrus · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 20:35 pm Post subject:

one thing i keep hearing in aircraft development is the fin growing along with the engine to maintain longitudinal stability

sorry to try to "teach Granny to suck eggs"-will end up with it scrambled on my face!

XN923 · Bronze Star Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 1176

walrus · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 23:12 pm Post subject:

I forgot about the contraprop- and like i said - i now have egg on face

i should have phrased my last post in the past tense

TopGun · Posted: Thu 06 Nov 2008 23:15 pm Post subject: