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the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

matey

TKS for the support and info. As to what I want from a model even I don't know

I never seem to make a kit "as is". Always want it to be summat else. Like the 1/400th. "Scharnhorst" I am currently working on. I want it to work but as I cannot get any of my R/C to work I am copying the system used by these 30GBP models where the screws are used to steer. Have got the gear but having problems with the props. Nobody, but nobody makes a prop less than 30mm dia. With 2 props that size she would take off.

Ayway. A'm awa the noo.

Cheers

dockyard matey · White Star Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 50

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Hi matey

I suppose I am getting to the stage where I can only make models, something I have been doing since I was 12, when plastic kits were unheard of.
While my R/C is u/s I am making plastic kits and adapting them to take a "torpedo" drive under the hull. First went O.K. even though it went under the jetty 3 times

.then went in circles for an hour as it made its way to the other side of the pond. Once set off you have no control over them. Second one, one of my favourites, went hard a port, under the jetty and was never seen again

Plenty of air draught so it either sank or went into a black hole

I miss the "torpedo" more than the ship as I have only one left now.
Been to the LMS today and I think I can now set up the power system for the "Scharnhorst" Have had a dummy run and the system works.

Cheers

tullins2004 · Posted: Sat 04 Jul 2009 13:45 pm Post subject:

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Tullins2004

Many thanks for the info. I must try them as I am getting mighty frustrated at not being able to continue with the kit.

Cheers

dockyard matey · White Star Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 50

mariner , it seems you have found your boffin
with 'tullins2004' , great stuff , keep us all up to date . cheers john .

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Well lads, I have had to admit temporary defeat. I just cannot get both motors to work even though they have individual ESC's and are controlled by a channel each. One works but not the other. Tested the other and it works. Could it be that Channel 2 used for rudder control cannot accept a fore/aft movement?
So it is on the back burner pro tem and I have started the Bismark [400th.] and will run it from one prop and normal R/C. I do admit to being in somewhat of a hurry but at 73 who wouldn't

and I am more interested in the "Graf Spee" when it arrives from China.

Cheers

Paddy O'Irishman · Posted: Fri 10 Jul 2009 23:07 pm Post subject:

Hi mariner, just spotted this topic, so I'm not sure where you are with Scharnhorst. I have built numerous 1/400 and 1/350 R/C kits. Firstly, forget trying to find brass props, use the kit's own plastic ones, believe me, they will work fine, all my models use the kit plastic props and wizz away nicely. (I have a 20 year old 1/350 Bismarck that gets sailed practically every week and has never given any trouble at all) Secondly, if your using a 2 channel R/C unit to control both props, it wont work, generally with 2 channel units, channel 1, (the forward/reverse channel) is designed to operate a servo or an E.S.C, channel 2, (left/right) is usually designed to operate a servo only. Thirdly, forget using individual E.S.C's for each prop, they'll never balance out, not because the E.S.Cs are at fault, it's because at that size, unless you spend a couple of hundred quid on precision motors, they will never all run at the exact same rpm. Just use one E.S.C to power all the motors, that way, the voltage flow will always balance out the individual motors so that they will all run as near as dammit at the same rpm. Also, due to the obviously small size of the motors fitted to a model of that scale, you would be better off not using E.S.Cs at all, generally, the amperage rating is way too high for the motors, unless again, you want to spend crazy money. Most E.S.Cs are 10 amps upwards, what that means in reality is with small motors, you will get literally an "ON/Off" throttle response. Use a 3 amp "Bobs Board" instead, (a flat, mechanical speed controller) fitted directly to the servo, that way you will get a nice progresive throttle responce, both forward and reverse. I use motors from "Tandy" that cost about a pound each, their about an inch long and 3/4 inch diameter, and use a piece of flexible plastic tubing (R/C aircraft fuel pipe) to connect the motors to the prop shafts, dirt cheap and no vibration. For the prop shafts I use standard brass rod and tube. Get some brass tube that is roughly the same diameter as the model's outer shaft casing, (if you cant get the same size. always go slightly larger) and then use a brass rod that fits snugly, but rotates freely, in the tube. Drill a hole in the kit propeller's (about 5mm should do), put a drop of superglue into the hole and push the rod into the propeller in one swift movement, let it dry and trim off any excess glue, and I guaruntee the prop will never come away from the rod. I found a nifty little way to get "propeller assisted steering". Attatch a couple of 2 stage contact micro switches to each side of the rudder servo in such a way that at half rudder, the 1st stage of the switch is activated, and at full rudder, the 2nd stage activates. Wire the micro switches to the outer motors, that way, on half rudder, the inner prop will stop, at full rudder the inner prop will reverse direction. Hope this helps, cheers , Aidan.
_________________
I didn't get to where I am now by being somewhere else!

dockyard matey · White Star Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 50

mariner , you've definetly found your boffins , sadly , i have not a clue what you are all talking about , but hoping for success . cheers john

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Aidan

TKS muchly for the info. So it appears I was right about Ch2 on the Tx not being able to handle an ESC

I too, use the props from the kits fixing them to the shaft by either screw thread [found on some aircraft control rods] or drilling an appropriate size hole and using CA to glue them in.

Now ready to mount the motor/prop assembly into the Bismark hull.

Cheers

Ian [the mariner]

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Hi again John, nice to hear from you. I take it you make kits for stationary models. Wish I had the patience and skill to do the same. I find it easier to make a working model because I can leave off all the "fiddly" little bits my fingers seem to think don't exist!

Cheers

Ian

Paddy O'Irishman · Posted: Sat 11 Jul 2009 22:42 pm Post subject:

Hi Marina, glad the info was of help, just another little trick I use to mount motors in my models, Blu-Tack, roll up a piece about the size of a marble and just push the motor down about 2/3 of the way onto it. I know it might sound silly, but it really does work very well, and it saves having to make up mountings etc for the motors plus it acts as an insolator against noise and vibration. Here's a couple of pics of my 1/350 Tamiya Bismarck that I built 20 years ago (it was my very first R/C model) to give you an idea of the way I generally go about converting a model of this relatively small size to R/C. In the 4th pic, you can see how I set up the micro switches so that the rudder actuating arm activates them (BTW, these particular switches are 1 stage switches but they should give you an idea of how it works). Just another thing, and I hope I'm not preaching what you already know, a lot of people cut the antenna wire to make a single run, BIG MISTAKE, never cut the antenna wire or your model will go out of control as soon as it's about 20 feet away from you, just loop the wire all the way around the inside of the hull a couple of times and you should get a range of at least 1/4 mile, all the best, Aidan.

_________________
I didn't get to where I am now by being somewhere else!

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Hi again Aidan

Great set of pics you have there. I am intrigued by 2 aspects
.
1 I take it that the square, green-outlined "board" in the centre is the speed controller. If it is, is it home-made or available commercially? I have tried to figure out such a system for years and even asked an electrician about 3 months ago. He said it couldn't be done.
2 Am I correct in assuming that the negative leads from the motors [incidentally about the same size as the ones I am using on the "Scharnhorst"] are soldered to the prop shaft covers?

On a .completely different note. I received my 1/400th scale "Graf Spee" from China yesterday. Made by C.C.Lee so can't see why it is not available in the UK. It is comparable or even slightly superior to its Airfix counterparts apart from the fact one cannot convert to "Scheer" because they make a separate kit for this. [They also make 1/400th kits of all 4 "Iowa" Class battleships]. Comes with electric motor, prop and shaft so should be easy enough to fit a small ESC and Pico servo. I must say I can't grumble at the price 8.99 GBP plus 9GBP P&P. Don't know why this machine won't print the "pound" sign!

Cheers

Ian

Paddy O'Irishman · Posted: Wed 15 Jul 2009 23:19 pm Post subject:

Hi Ian, to answer your 1st question,,, yes, it's a comercially available mechanical speed controller, commonly known as a "Bobs Board", they work on the resistor principle and are designed to fit straight on to a standard servo without having to do any modification work, they have a self adhesive pad (which actually sticks really well) on the underneath to allow attatchment to the top of the servo. The beauty of them is they are only the thickness of a credit card and thus very lightweight. As for your 2nd question, the answer is no, those black "negative" wires you see attatched to the prop shaft outer casings are just grounding or shielding wires to reduce R/C interference , or, "white noise" as some people call it. There just soldered to the outer casing of the motors and then to the prop casing, I suppose rather like an anti-static strip. The R/C system runs on 6 volts to power the reciever and servo's, and the motors run on 3 volts. With the set up I have in the Bismarck, the R/C batteries last on average about 12 to 14 months, and the motor batteries (assuming an hours use per week) about 9 to 10 months, thats based on using "Duracell AA" batteries, so there's no real need for rechargable batteries unless you plan on using it for extended periods. If you do want to use rechargable batteries, I have found the ones sold by "Aldi" are superb, probably the best rechargable batteries I've come across, and their incredibly cheap. The Aldi batteries (Brand name is "Activ") are NiMH type (Nickel Metal Hydrade), dont bother with Ni-Cad type (Nickel Cadmium). The NiMH type last much longer between charges and they dont suffer from the "memory effect" that Ni-Cads suffer from. In other words, you dont have to drain the batteries before charging, which you have to do with Ni-Cads. It's funny your comment regarding the electricians statement, I had loads of "experts" tell me that my system wouldn't work, trust me, it does work, and it works very well, I've used this system in 7 models without a single hitch. It is ideal for 1/400 and 1/350 scale ships due to it's size, weight and cost factors.
Regarding the Graff Spee, I haven't had a look at the Lee version yet. The Airfix/Heller 1/400 Graf Spee (according to one of this sites members, I think possibly Reme) is actually the Admiral Scheer, or uses most of the Admiral Scheer superstructure parts so it will need some work to make it a better representation of Graf Spee. Dragon have just released a 1/350 Graff Spee and Trumpeter have one due out soon, which is typical, seeing as I have just recently bought the Heller 1/400 Graf Spee, along with P/E set and resin accesorries for it, oh well, there we go, regards, Aidan.

_________________
I didn't get to where I am now by being somewhere else!

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Hi again Aidan and again thanks for the info. Speaking of which, is "Bob's Board" still available as I have never come across it before.

I was amazed to read thar Airfix have released a 1/400 "Graf Spee" because Hannants do not list it, only Revell's 1/720 versiion. Will try their site again and look for the Dragon kit.

Have to close now as I have lots to do on the PC [bills to pay!] before it goes in to drydock for a proper careening but before I go I must again congratulate you on your pic of "Bismark" afloat Really superb. Even though they were German all of them were extremely beautiful and graceful ships.

Cheers

Ian

dockyard matey · White Star Joined: 06 Jun 2009 Posts: 50

mariner , again apologies for not answering you before , been on holiday , my ' trick cyclist ' say's i'm coming on fine

.
seriously I would love to make a ' r/c boat ', but my battered brain just does'nt understand all the tech stuff . I was ok years ago ( monkey see / monkey do ) , but it all sounds to technical now ..
I'm following your topic with interest , re all the fiddle stuff , it would be destroyed quickly no matter how carefully you handled your model . I would think that ' aidans ' models are perfect for r/c .
anyway good luck cheers john .

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Hi John, good to hear from you again. So! You too have a "trick-cyclist".
Mine is a frosty faced female octogenarian [sic] and I found her to be of no use whatever.

So I decided to spend my way out of my depression and went to the Model Shop today and bought another R/C set, this one for the Bismark or the Graf Spee. Still don't know how to solve the dual propulsion system on the Scharnhorst

Anyway I hope you enjoyed your holiday. Because I have a cat and daren't have him "homed" I cannot have a holiday. Last one was in May 2000 in the Algarve with a bevy of gorgeous models and a pack of photographers.

All the best

Ian

Paddy O'Irishman · Posted: Sat 08 Aug 2009 18:35 pm Post subject:

Hi Ian, sorry for the late reply re the "Bobs Board". I bought all of my ones when I lived in England from a R/C model shop. They have no Brand name on them so I couldn't google any info for you, however, rooting thru the attic I found a spare one that I never used. It's a 10 amp unit so it would not do for what you want, but, I have no use for it so if you want to pm me your address etc, I'll post it over to you ( I dont want anything for it, it's a freebie) so at least you can take it to an electronics shop and show them what your looking for, that way you might have some luck finding some, Aidan.
_________________
I didn't get to where I am now by being somewhere else!

Biggles · Posted: Sat 15 Aug 2009 13:53 pm Post subject:

For speed controllers try Action Electronics: http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/speed.php

They produce electronic speed controllers with ratings of down to 1 amp that are especily designed for converted plastic kits, as well as all sorts of other goodies including destroyer sounds, etc.

I strongly advise you to ring them up and have a chat about your requirements. They have an excellent reputation for helpfulness and for quality products within the R/C boating community.

Bobs Boards may still be available but they are not commonly used these days and, as Paddy suggests, they might be hard to track down.

These R/C boating forums might be of interest to you as well. Their members are usually friendly and very helpful.

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/...63dc3957658cbf0d6f6cbcf5c19d&

the mariner · Black Star Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 18

Hi Biggles

Many thanks for the info. Unfortunately I initially used 2 of Action's ESC's, one for each motor but Channel 2 on the Rx didn't activate the second motor. However, I now have a Bob's Board and an ESC from Como Drills. One of these will go in the "Scharnhorst". The "Bismark" has a Sea Rover ESC and a rudder servo. I am not thinking as far ahead as the "Graff Spee" yet but it already has a motor on/off switch and built in battery compartment. It too is 1/400th. scale so I will leave it much as it is with forward steaming only but fit a rudder/servo.

I already am a member of both forums you mention but thanks anyway.

Cheers

Ian