- The Airfix Tribute Forum -

davecov · Posted: Wed 07 Nov 2007 18:22 pm Post subject:

I actually took plans to JBO 1 and 2 and somehow never had the time to discuss it. I also kept a bit quiet because I didn't want to proceed too far with components etc before the JB Models acquisition was confirmed publicly by Airfix. Now we all know about that, we can get things moving slightly faster than not all again!

Dave
_________________
DaveCov - Site Founder, The Airfix Tribute Forum

Ratch · Posted: Wed 07 Nov 2007 19:18 pm Post subject:

I was thinking about this the other day too

I quite fancy scratchbuilding some buildings

_________________
and was Jerusalem, builded here
The new No. 2
Airfix Club 500287
IPMS 10983

joe · Posted: Sun 11 Nov 2007 09:14 am Post subject:

Ratch buildings, you could say

There was lots of landscaping things to be bought at telford, i think woodland scenics is the company to go for.
_________________
gigiddygiggidy goo!

Ratch · Posted: Sun 11 Nov 2007 17:04 pm Post subject:

joe · Posted: Sun 11 Nov 2007 19:28 pm Post subject:

but are you're ratch building skills?

_________________
gigiddygiggidy goo!

Ratch · Posted: Sun 11 Nov 2007 19:33 pm Post subject:

Never scratchbuilt a whole building before

so who knows

_________________
and was Jerusalem, builded here
The new No. 2
Airfix Club 500287
IPMS 10983

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Fri 16 Nov 2007 16:49 pm Post subject:

I should be able to find some architectural drawings that may be useful if you are serious about scratchbuilding.....There are several thousand in our loft!

It would just be a case of getting up there and sorting out the suitable ones.

PM me if there is anything you would seriously like plans for (It gets very hot & itchy up in that damn loft!

).....Houses, schools and pubs should be reasonably easy to find, churches and mills are also a possibility.

All the best

Ratch · Posted: Fri 16 Nov 2007 17:16 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the offer Andy

I think I'll start with something really simple

Don't know what yet, and I probably won't start looking into it until the new year

_________________
and was Jerusalem, builded here
The new No. 2
Airfix Club 500287
IPMS 10983

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Fri 16 Nov 2007 18:16 pm Post subject:

If I do happen to venture up into the 'Loft of Doom' I'll have a poke around and see what's there.....I try to avoid the place though!

All the best
EDIT - Apparently I will have to go up there to recover the xmas decorations.....Oh joy!

airfixteen · Posted: Thu 10 Jan 2008 22:20 pm Post subject:

Well any news Dave?

It still a go ahead or are you still planning it?
_________________
You must listen to what the baked potato say.....

Luke

Richard M · Posted: Sun 20 Jan 2008 20:20 pm Post subject:

Right! Time to kick the moss off this stone and get it rolling again! As the Special GB guru I've taken responsibilty of this build and assumed the position of GB Leader with Dave's consent.

It's a very interesting project which deserves to get going. Therefore I have several suggestion to get things moving.

1). The actual diorama base is going to be the trickiest bit, both in building, transportation and assembly. Therefore I suggest we go with Sarge's suggestion of a flat 2d representation of the area on a poster type base. I suggest this consist of three or four sections which are A0 (84.1cm by 119cm) in size.

Three sections will give us an area 119cm wide by 253cm long, which works out at 84m by 181m in real life scaling to 1/72.
e.g St Mawes, Truro, 84 by 181 approx (1/72)

Four sections will increase the length to 336cm or 243m real life in 1/72 scale.
e.g St Mawes, Truro, 84m by 243m

In both cases the line represents the length of the base. A0 is the largest standard size most printing operations use, if we want to get a base printed up.

2). Subject area. We have a design for ATF on sea. I personally would suggest we find a suitable candidate of a seaside fishing port through google earth. This will give us a good realistic plan to work from and add an element of realism to the project. Many sites on google earth contain photo's of the actual area for reference. This gives us the option of making a simplified plan in a drawing programme, or using a high res image printed out.

3). Scale, 1/76 or 1/72, tricky one this. I would say to go with 1/72 just to tie everything into a common scale with the aircraft and ships/boats. The vehicles aren't my strong point and I appreciate people may want to utilise the JB models which are going to be released. We may have to wait untul we finalise the vehicle list and what is available before making a definitive decision on the scale.

4). Structures and buildings. These could be made on a minibase and placed onto the map. This would greatly aid their storage and transportation. Once we have a plan or area we can decide what buildings to produce.

5). Military components. We will have to thrash out a list of subjects and their numbers. The beauty of the 2d base allows for flexibilty in the positioning and the possibility of several different scenarios being enacted. There are some lists already which can be worked on.

6). Participants. The following have joined the usergroup;
airfixteen
DavidM
joe
Little Kid Falky
Owen
Ratch
Sgt. Squarehead
Stuzzar,
Me
Dave.
I'd be grateful if you could indicate if you are still interested in taking part of the build so we have an idea of numbers.

I want to get the base planned and sorted out by next Sunday (1 week), so we can then decide on the subjects to be modelled.

Comments, suggestions, critiscisms please - lets get cracking!
Best
Rich
_________________
Best
Rich
---------------------------

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die."

Visit my PORTFOLIO

Richard M · Posted: Sun 20 Jan 2008 22:31 pm Post subject:

Well having gone through everything from Rottingdean to Hythe, there aren't really that many candidates. They are either cliffs or shallow sandy beaches with very little close to them bar a few houses or in a lot of cases Victorian seafronts (e.g. Seaford). Even working out to 240m there isn't really a lot to work with, bit of a shame - I was hoping to base it on real life.
Best
Rich
_________________
Best
Rich
---------------------------

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die."

Visit my PORTFOLIO

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Sun 20 Jan 2008 23:14 pm Post subject:

Hi Rich, Guys.....I think you can count me in on this one!

I'd agree with pretty much all of what you have said, with (and this may surprise you!) the exception that I would go for 1/76 scale vehicles.....This is the Airfix/British AFV modelling scale and it would be appropriate to use it. Using 1/76 will keep the vehicles in scale with a wide variety of model railway products.

The thing I really need to see is a plan of each of the boards. We need to decide where 'modules' will be located on the board and how big they will be. I think it might be best to start with our town
'ATFie on Sea'.

It would be folly to try to build a whole town or even a village for this project, so why not just model the flank of a seafront town. If we plan it so that the main road out of town lies more or less on a board edge we can use model railway 'frontage' style buildings along that edge to give the impression of the larger town.

A railway line should run inland roughly parallel with this main road, perhaps with points connecting to a costal branch line running perpendicular to the main line. This should allow the model railway types to get their teeth into the build and will help us to fill out the board logically.

The other option is to swing back further towards the 'wargame style' modular terrain and each build fully self contained modules which can be linked up on the boards as needed or available on the day so to speak. This would require a small stock of road/rail/river etc. sections to allow the various components to be linked.

Just some thoughts, all the best

Ratch · Posted: Sun 20 Jan 2008 23:53 pm Post subject:

I'm still up for this too

What about Slapton Sands in Devon as a basis

Fishing village at one end of the beach, long shingle beach, lagoon behind beach then fields, and the Americans actually practiced for D-Day there

_________________
and was Jerusalem, builded here
The new No. 2
Airfix Club 500287
IPMS 10983

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 00:06 am Post subject:

It's a good place to consider. To be honest I still think 'Anytown UK' is the best location.....It's easier to get it accurate!

For what it's worth & all the best

Ratch · Posted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 00:08 am Post subject:

I just meant as a starting point

nothing too complicated, not too many buildings, but still a realistic beach-head Think

_________________
and was Jerusalem, builded here
The new No. 2
Airfix Club 500287
IPMS 10983

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 00:19 am Post subject:

OK.....It works for me!

What's going to be going on on this shingle beach then - Germans storming ashore? Or something more tranquil? Personally I think the former sounds more fun!

Maybe we could model the Brits falling back to the second line?

The problem with such a large and diverse diorama is that you are trying to capture a 'static instant' within a very dynamic situation and thus things need to be quite tightly coordinated. We will need to work out EXACTLY what is happening in that 'instant' across all of the different boards and select what to model accordingly. It's no good us deciding that the Germans have stormed ashore, only for us to then recieve half a dozen Spitfires, a dozen Matildas & MkVIs, two Vosper MTBs and a solitary Panzer IV!

All the best

Ratch · Posted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 00:31 am Post subject:

I'd say the first wave of Germans have reached the fields, where the main British defenses are situated. The second wave of Germans are landing with tanks and specialist vehicles. Brit reinforcements could be arriving at the rear

_________________
and was Jerusalem, builded here
The new No. 2
Airfix Club 500287
IPMS 10983

Sgt.Squarehead · Posted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 00:45 am Post subject:

OK! Works for me again!

We should perhaps factor in some Fallschirmers causing a Kerfuffle in the British rear areas!

Here again we encounter the problem with trying to be overly accurate in one large diorama.....Even in 1/76 or 1/72 we might still need a football field sized area for the gaps between each layer of the defenses!

For what it's worth & all the best

Richard M · Posted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 07:23 am Post subject:

Having looked at the scale of things, and even with the largest area it's not a lot of real life area. It might look a bit forced to try to fit too much in.

A refinement I thought would be to have the three A0 sheets to act as independent diorama's, in real life they would give an area approximately 60m wide by 80m long. This would allow some flexibility in scale by allowing a different scale to be used on different maps. I thought we could do;

1). Assault phase on shingle/sand beach with coastal defences and the promenade of a coastal village. Mainly beach with a few buildings or bunkers.

2). Inland assault against a village, railway bridge, canal. This would allow us to have the buildings and railway component. Parachute assault?

3). Assault against the GHQ line, the defensive inland line consisting of bunkers, tank blocks, pill boxes etc.

I thought this would cover the three most important phases of the operation and allow us to cover all the options. It also allows us to extend an individual scenario with further maps.

After all this is Operation SeaLion, so we should try to base it as closely upon the actual plan and area topography as we can, otherwise it could be anything just made up.
Best
Rich
_________________
Best
Rich
---------------------------

"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die."

Visit my PORTFOLIO