Airfix Logo

Humbrol Logo

The Airfix Tribute Forum was established in April 2006 to discuss the making of Airfix models.

Email: admin at airfixtributeforum.co.uk

It is currently Fri 18 Aug 2017 08:02 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov 2015 00:11 am 
Offline
Site Owner
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 07:32 am
Posts: 62088
Location: Northampton UK
: Site Owner
: Administrator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
The 1:600 Airfix Bismarck has been dropped from the range for 2016, the first time since it was introduced in 1962 :shock:
Does this mean we'll be getting a new tool in 2017 :pray:

_________________
Living the dream
My Portfolio
My current Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov 2015 01:20 am 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star

Joined: Thu 21 Mar 2013 13:13 pm
Posts: 250
: --------------------
Wow they really didn't want to have many steps on those Tirpitz instructions did they, it's like a parts explosion.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov 2015 05:41 am 
Offline
Blue Star
Blue Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon 24 Apr 2006 22:41 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Rockfall, CT, USA
Ratch wrote:
The 1:600 Airfix Bismarck has been dropped from the range for 2016, the first time since it was introduced in 1962 :shock:
Does this mean we'll be getting a new tool in 2017 :pray:

I think it's more likely that the tooling is worn out. I have one of these kits from several years ago and the fit of the hull halves was atrocious. The dropping of the kit from the range does seem like the end of an era, but the Bismarck was in no danger of breaking any records. The Revell 1/535 USS New Jersey has been continuously in production since 1953.

_________________
Dr Russ
"Arte et Labore"

My Portfolio


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov 2015 05:46 am 
Offline
Blue Star
Blue Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon 24 Apr 2006 22:41 pm
Posts: 728
Location: Rockfall, CT, USA
ricman wrote:
It's a pity that the old 1/600 kits aren't very accurate. The hull shape and turrets are a bit out of scale. The Bismarck was the second model ship I built with a lot of help from my Dad.(I was only 5 going on 6 years old at the time). The best of the current breed is the Tamiya 1/350 pair with WEM photo etch they build into a stunning set of models.

In the time since this was posted I believe that the Tamiya Bismarck and Tirpitz have been superceded in 1/350 by the Revell kits. I suspect that Revell's 1/700 scale versions are also the best in that scale though there are worthy competitors by Dragon and Aoshima. Of course, for the ultimate Bismarck, there is the 1/200 Trumpeter kit.

_________________
Dr Russ
"Arte et Labore"

My Portfolio


Last edited by VMA131Marine on Sat 14 Nov 2015 13:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov 2015 10:42 am 
Offline
Site Owner
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 07:32 am
Posts: 62088
Location: Northampton UK
: Site Owner
: Administrator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
VMA131Marine wrote:
I think it's more likely that the tooling is worn out.

I expect that is the case. Some of us would love a state-of-the-art 1/600 ship to hove over the Airfix horizon. We find 1/350 too big to make a collection because of storage space, and don't want to convert to 1/700 because we'd have to start our collections all over again :hithead:
Please Hornby, retool the 1/600 Bismarck. You know it sells :!: And then a 1/600 Dreadnought :pray:

_________________
Living the dream
My Portfolio
My current Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 14 Nov 2015 11:28 am 
Offline
ATF Founder
ATF Founder
User avatar

Joined: Fri 21 Apr 2006 22:12 pm
Posts: 11727
Location: Stow, Scottish Borders
: ATF Creator
: Administrator
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
: AMSIG Member
: ex-Royal Navy
saxon wrote:
Wow they really didn't want to have many steps on those Tirpitz instructions did they, it's like a parts explosion.

Actually, the old "locate and cement" instructions like that were better than the current instructions. You were told what each part represented so you learnt a lot about the subject as you built it.

Dave

_________________
DaveCov - Creator of The Airfix Tribute Forum.

My Portfolio + My Works in Progress + My Stash. "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." - Salvador Dali

Stash: 174. Built: 1967-1980: 250. 1981-2005: 4. 2006-2010: 52. 2011-2015: 119. 2016: 33. 2017: 8.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2015 11:47 am 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star

Joined: Sun 18 Jun 2006 11:35 am
Posts: 290
Location: Wiltshire
The 1:600 Bismarck and Tirpitz are one tool.

The Bismarck was tooled 10 1962 at a cost of £5,614.

Tirpitz is shown as "Tirpitz (Mod. Bismarck)" 03 1968 at a cost of £44!

The only difference was around middle where a couple of torpedo racks replaced a turret or crane. I have both kits made-up and I think the extra parts were already on the runner. The £44 seems a bit low for a couple of extra parts. One would need to look at a current Bismarck to see if the extra Tirpitz parts are on it.

jezbrook


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2015 12:32 pm 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star
User avatar

Joined: Thu 17 Oct 2013 16:37 pm
Posts: 313
Location: Ilkley
: --------------------
DaveCov wrote:
saxon wrote:
Wow they really didn't want to have many steps on those Tirpitz instructions did they, it's like a parts explosion.

Actually, the old "locate and cement" instructions like that were better than the current instructions. You were told what each part represented so you learnt a lot about the subject as you built it.

Dave
They were actually much clearer in many ways, as they would describe the more complex operations (such as alternative positions).
I recall that on one model at least ("Royal Sovereign"?) the use of obscure terms ("cowbridgehead") in the instructions was used in the publicity material to emphasise their educational value.

_________________
"Quae desperat tractata nitescere posse, reliquit" - Horace, Ars Poetica 1.148
(What he fears he cannot make attractive with his touch, he abandons)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov 2015 12:36 pm 
Offline
ATF Founder
ATF Founder
User avatar

Joined: Fri 21 Apr 2006 22:12 pm
Posts: 11727
Location: Stow, Scottish Borders
: ATF Creator
: Administrator
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
: AMSIG Member
: ex-Royal Navy
jezbrook wrote:
The 1:600 Bismarck and Tirpitz are one tool.

The Bismarck was tooled 10 1962 at a cost of £5,614.

Tirpitz is shown as "Tirpitz (Mod. Bismarck)" 03 1968 at a cost of £44!

The only difference was around middle where a couple of torpedo racks replaced a turret or crane. I have both kits made-up and I think the extra parts were already on the runner. The £44 seems a bit low for a couple of extra parts. One would need to look at a current Bismarck to see if the extra Tirpitz parts are on it.

jezbrook

They are not identical contents though. I've just had a look at three boxings:

Tirpitz (04209-7) - (Type 4 boxing)
Bismarck (04204) - (Type 5 boxing)
Bismarck (A04204) - (latest Type 16 "Red" boxing)

The two Bismarck kit sprues are identical without any torpedo tubes.

Tirpitz has two torpedo tubes which according to the instructions replace two boats (Parts 102 & 103). However, the original boats for Bismarck are still on the Tirpitz sprue at 102 & 103 and the two torpedo tubes were added in a different place. Unfortunately, both tubes and a lot of other parts have fallen off the Tirpitz sprues so I cannot say where they were located unless I break open the polybag - which I do not want to do at the moment.

In summary, one of the Tirpitz sprues is different to the Bismarck equivalent and the Bismarck boxings has never had the torpedo tubes on it's sprues.

Dave

_________________
DaveCov - Creator of The Airfix Tribute Forum.

My Portfolio + My Works in Progress + My Stash. "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." - Salvador Dali

Stash: 174. Built: 1967-1980: 250. 1981-2005: 4. 2006-2010: 52. 2011-2015: 119. 2016: 33. 2017: 8.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2016 15:27 pm 
Offline
Black Star
Black Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat 20 Jun 2009 15:41 pm
Posts: 13
I am terribly late in posting to this thread, having been out of modeling for several years running. It's great to see this forum still in existence, considering the number of sites I once indexed having gone the way of The Grim Reaper...but I wanted to comment on the long-standing Bismarck/Tirpitz hull length issue. Briefly, the two ships' hulls were essentially identical in both waterline length, and LOA. The whole "3 metres" longer matter, which has persisted through the years, is false. The "extra" 3 metres simply stems from a builder's plan of Tirpitz, on which the draughtsman had depicted the ship's stern jackstaff(?) in its swung-down position, i.e., the staff lying horizontally pointing astern, thus overhanging the hull by about nine feet or so and adding its apparent "length" to the ship. The staff was not rigged to pivot forward toward D-turret when struck--possibly to avoid the stern anchor cabling (?). Believe it or not, that's the origin of the length discrepancy between the sister ships! However, the Bismarck--unlike Tirpitz-- was originally constructed with a "stem" bow, as were most other major KM vessels (Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, etc.). This was not the case for Tirpitz, which was built with a raked bow. Although the differences were subtle in their final configurations, the bow of Tirpitz ended-up slightly different in its overall shape. This gives a modeler discretion to adjust the bow form slightly, as I do not believe most (if any) kit models reflect this small difference in shape/rake/curvature.
While I cannot address the flaws in the 1:600 Bismarck/Tirpitz moulding, neither product measures up to scratch, as the hull height is excessive, bilge keels are wrong, and numerous other problems exist; other manufacturers have since produced much more accurate kits, but to my knowledge, not in 1:600 scale. I believe the Momogram version of Tirpitz, although not scaled quite at 50 feet to the inch (about 1:615, IIRC?), has a better (overall) shape factor.
Just my pound's worth...

_________________
Music doesn't exist in a two-scale world....why should ship modeling?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 11 Jul 2016 18:01 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 01:22 am
Posts: 12769
Location: Nanaimo. British Columbia. Canadia
: Group Build Leader
: Airfix Modelling SIG Member
Building Bismarck as a waterline kit will avoid the hull height issue. Otherwise, you can cut and shut if you want a full hull. I do think the Monogram kit looks better. It's a pity it's not to scale.

_________________
Portfolio


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul 2016 19:53 pm 
Offline
Black Star
Black Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat 20 Jun 2009 15:41 pm
Posts: 13
Brews wrote:
Building Bismarck as a waterline kit will avoid the hull height issue.
Waterlining any Airfix 1:600 warship model would be tantamount to an admission of failure, in my view! :cry: [With no disrespect intended toward my smaller-scale friends! :Hug: ] I'll have to do the cut-and-shut approach, a task I've used on several previous projects, in order to correct other moulding faults (HMS Hood, for one).
--DJ

_________________
Music doesn't exist in a two-scale world....why should ship modeling?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul 2016 20:03 pm 
Offline
Site Owner
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 07:32 am
Posts: 62088
Location: Northampton UK
: Site Owner
: Administrator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
I'm in the process of building one waterline and one full hull of each of Airfix's 1/600 WW2 Warships. To me the waterlined, set in a seascape, look much more realistic :boat:

_________________
Living the dream
My Portfolio
My current Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 14 Jul 2016 20:49 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 01:22 am
Posts: 12769
Location: Nanaimo. British Columbia. Canadia
: Group Build Leader
: Airfix Modelling SIG Member
Repulse36 wrote:
I'll have to do the cut-and-shut approach
Your mission, then is to be quite solid in your shutting, and choose which way you want to cut first, as there are at least two transverse cuts (in the deck, at least) as well as the horizontal cuts to reduce the hull height. To summarize, take a good look at plans and elevations. Much of Airfix's superstructure details are correctly-scaled, but laid out incorrectly, which is why cutting and relocating is a way to correct it. The bow needs a bit of attention. It should be somewhat more concave in plan view on both sides, rather than ogival. Not sure if even the Monogram Bismarck got that right.

_________________
Portfolio


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2016 19:52 pm 
Offline
Black Star
Black Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat 20 Jun 2009 15:41 pm
Posts: 13
Thanks, Brews!
If I am to build one at all, I would like it to be done even more thoroughly than you have briefly described. I'd quite possibly construct it as Tirpitz, regardless of any box cover artwork. In any case, I will include the "kartoffelraum" (if appropriate for my chosen time frame), corrected hangars, catapult, cranes, and other detail differences, depicted and positioned as accurately as possible. There's simply no substitute for thorough research before I attempt any serious modeling project, particularly in 1:600, the most harmonious and classic of warship modeling scales!
-DJB-


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 20 Jul 2016 20:13 pm 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 09:02 am
Posts: 382
Location: Malta
: --------------------
And Liner modelling scales :clap:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Airfix Tirpitz/Bismarck
PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul 2017 17:36 pm 
Offline
Green Star
Green Star

Joined: Wed 26 Oct 2011 13:55 pm
Posts: 184
Read elsewhere on the site that the Airfix Tirptz and Bismarck were the same kit. Were they, and how approriate is/was this in general terms!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul 2017 17:54 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 01:22 am
Posts: 12769
Location: Nanaimo. British Columbia. Canadia
: Group Build Leader
: Airfix Modelling SIG Member
inkpen wrote:
Read elsewhere on the site that the Airfix Tirptz and Bismarck were the same kit. Were they, and how approriate is/was this in general terms!
Not quite the same. The Tirpitz kit includes torpedo tubes - which is appropriate.
Unfortunately, both kits suffer some accuracy issues which may or may not bother you. The hull is too high. The bow isn't "pointy' enough .. the fo'c's'le deck is convex-ogival rather than recurved. The arrangement of the superstructure is not right. All the "pieces" are more-or-less right, and some are nearly in the right spots, but the overall arrangement is forced to maintain scale, and misses the mark of the whole ... if you get my drift. The 1:1200 Bismarck is similarly tooled, and I discussed this in detail circa 2007 IIRC.

_________________
Portfolio


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul 2017 17:58 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 01:22 am
Posts: 12769
Location: Nanaimo. British Columbia. Canadia
: Group Build Leader
: Airfix Modelling SIG Member
DaveCov wrote:
saxon wrote:
Wow they really didn't want to have many steps on those Tirpitz instructions did they, it's like a parts explosion.
Actually, the old "locate and cement" instructions like that were better than the current instructions. You were told what each part represented so you learnt a lot about the subject as you built it.
I wonder if, in this age of "Google Translate", that it would be possible to include the old instructions, or a URL to the text, and translations thereof in other languages, to avoid the duplication in print of a multitude of languages, which was the demise of "locate and cement".

_________________
Portfolio


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 39 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

The Airfix Tribute Forum

The Airfix Tribute Forum - Est. 2006 | Make a Donation


modelsforsale.com