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 Post subject: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun 2017 12:30 pm 
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Slightly surprised that there's been no mention on here of QUEEN ELIZABETH heading off for sea trials. If it had been a new aircraft I suspect the aircraft forum would be on its third or fourth page of posts by now. Having had the privilege of being Officer of the Watch 1 in ARK ROYAL when she sailed for contractor sea trials in October 1984 (and almost having the privilege of being the person to put her aground when we dragged anchor off the mouth of the Tyne on our last night), I know what they're going through as they put the kit to test for the first time.

All we need now is a 1/600 QE - c'mon Airfix, if Dave can scratch build one then I'm sure it's worth tooling up. Just hope it's better than the 1/350 LUSTY which looks so clunky that I can't bring myself to make it.


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 Post subject: Re: QUEEN ELIZABETH
PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun 2017 16:16 pm 
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Totally agree I think she looks like a proper warship . I will try to get to pompey when she comes in . It will take a good workup to get all her tests done but she will be fine all we need know is a decent fleet to support her

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 Post subject: Re: QUEEN ELIZABETH
PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun 2017 17:56 pm 
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andykirby61 wrote:
all we need know is a decent fleet to support her
Err, and a few aircraft to go on her. If she's going to tie up most of the other surface vessels we've got just to protect her, it would help if she was actually a complete weapons system!

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 Post subject: Re: QUEEN ELIZABETH
PostPosted: Wed 28 Jun 2017 18:49 pm 
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Perhaps we could lease some Harriers from the US? :Whistling:

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 08:46 am 
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The thing that got me was the EBC talking about "20 aircraft" like it's a lot; it's hardly enough to maintain a decent BARCAP!

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 12:41 pm 
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Couldn't agree more. The nearest US carrier to her in size was USS MIDWAY on which I landed for fuel during Operation Granby in 1991. I seem to recall that she carried 3 F18 and 2 A6 squadrons, plus a smattering of EA6Bs, E2Cs and SH3s so about 60-65 aircraft in total.

Now we have to accept that the F35 is a far more capable aircraft than anything else comparable, but it's the same argument over T45 versus T42. Yes the T45 may have twice the capability of a T42 but even it cannot be in two places at once. 20 F35 - realistically 10-12 serviceable F35 - will not be able to be everywhere when needed.


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 13:48 pm 
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I don't understand the logic in reducing the numbers of hulls. The world hasn't suddenly shrunk, we still have 80% of our trade coming by sea, piracy is rife in many areas and the RN has a problem retaining personnel as they are having to spend more and more time at sea. There are also certain political problems which I won't go into!

It was great to see HMS Queen Elizabeth at sea. For years I have been passing her as she has been building in Rosyth and now there is a big gap where she used to be!

It was almost three years ago that I went onboard her. At the time I built the model, I could have had access to shipbuilder's CAD files but I was unable to use them. Airfix could have got access to them too but alas they couldn't be bothered. I am still rather annoyed by that. I know they have a small design team but they could have been working on a model QE for the past three years while doing the other stuff. They have definitely missed a trick as a lot of people are now clamouring for a kit. Of course, they could be working on one without my knowlege.....!

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Thu 29 Jun 2017 21:06 pm 
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@wookie - The Aster 30 missile (aka PAAMS and/or Sea Viper in UK service) has a range of 120km, and the SAMPSON a range of 400km (sources Wikipedia but they sound about right) so 3 T45s at about 40km on 0, 120 and 240 degrees relative to the carrier with fully serviceable SAMPSON and Sea Viper might actually make a BARCAP as long as you don't have issues with identifying bogies as actually being Blue or Red. Of course, this does mean that 2 carriers soak up the entire T45 fleet.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 11:53 am 
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I am fascinated by the fact that the sea trials will involve testing the waste systems- I wonder what they are going to feed the crew to do that?

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 14:34 pm 
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Paws4thot wrote:
Of course, this does mean that 2 carriers soak up the entire T45 fleet.
But the chances of both carriers ever being operational/at sea at the same time are ...?

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 14:51 pm 
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@Dordogne Dodger - About the same as all 40 of their F-35s being operational simultaneously; that is nil!!

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Fri 30 Jun 2017 16:45 pm 
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czartan wrote:
I am fascinated by the fact that the sea trials will involve testing the waste systems- I wonder what they are going to feed the crew to do that?
I was watching the series about HMS Ocean , was fascinated how they test the output from the waste system purifier by drinking it! Was never like that in my day!


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Sat 01 Jul 2017 19:53 pm 
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Paws4thot wrote:
@wookie - The Aster 30 missile (aka PAAMS and/or Sea Viper in UK service) has a range of 120km, and the SAMPSON a range of 400km (sources Wikipedia but they sound about right) so 3 T45s at about 40km on 0, 120 and 240 degrees relative to the carrier with fully serviceable SAMPSON and Sea Viper might actually make a BARCAP as long as you don't have issues with identifying bogies as actually being Blue or Red. Of course, this does mean that 2 carriers soak up the entire T45 fleet.
2 assumptions there (one of which you already allude to).
1. There will be 3 T45 available to escort each carrier. Given current serviceability rates of the T45s that's a tough call and one of the reasons why we will never see both carriers operational at the same time.
2. And this is more important in the "bird target" vs "CAP target" argument. Do you actually want to shoot it down? There are multiple steps in rules of engagement before you get to that ultimate option. A CAP offers the command flexibility. The SAM offers one option only.
sunnybunny wrote:
I was watching the series about HMS Ocean , was fascinated how they test the output from the waste system purifier by drinking it! Was never like that in my day!
That's exactly what my Chief Shipwright used to do to prove that the sewage treatment plant was working satisfactorily


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Sat 01 Jul 2017 22:10 pm 
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wookie wrote:
2 assumptions there (one of which you already allude to).
I'm well aware of both assumptions, and particularly the argument that you have to make a shoot/no shoot decision with less data when you are making a BVR interception.
:Tonka1:

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Fri 25 Aug 2017 09:33 am 
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Those are not sound assumptions anyway. The point of the T45 is that only 1 is needed to protect a task group. That's why the US navy has had us escort one of their carriers with 1 on occasion. So realistically you'd have a QE with 1 T45 and a pair of T23, or T26 in the future. An Astute in the area may be present, and the air group will provide more than enough protection for most scenarios.

I do hope a good kit is tooled released for the QE class, preferably by Airfix, and I'm not fussed about the scale. 1/350 would be a major project, but 1/600 or 1/700 would be equally attractive to me.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Fri 25 Aug 2017 11:15 am 
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@PayasYouFly - Cheers, but I'd already accepted that; the previously unstated political point was that we don't have anything like enough T45s anyway!

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Fri 25 Aug 2017 13:54 pm 
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We do not have the manpower either . They are more technically trained these days then when I was in , but they can not train the one,s that are joining up fast enough because so many are leaving . I think its a disgrace what our arm forces have become and be sure it will come back to bite us . the carrier is awesome but like the 45,s will be in more than it is out which is so wrong .

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Queen Elizabeth
PostPosted: Sun 27 Aug 2017 00:47 am 
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Just had to look up the "Queen Elizabeth", if any mention of her was on the news out here, I must have missed it. OZ is also having a big spend too, (hope they are not relying on me paying extra tax), H.M.A.S. Canberra, has just been completed, (which is the largest ship built out here). Here in Adelaide they have just finished a couple of guided missile frigates, (H.M.A.S. Hobart, and I cannot remember the other). Also there will be a fleet of new Submarines, and another 6 Frigates, going to be started, in 2018/20.
Mike


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