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PostPosted: Wed 12 Apr 2017 19:16 pm 
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What about Nimrod or VC10?
I'm sure both can be, or possibly were, equipped with munitions of one sort or another.

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr 2017 11:54 am 
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@DogTailRed2 - I imagine you could hang bombs in the Nimrod weapons bay, some of them had a Harpoon capability, and one of the late mods to the MR2(A) fleet gave them pylon-hung Sidewinder and hence ASRAAM capability, but if you get into dog fighting using one of those, something has gone totally messed up anyway! :sofa:

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr 2017 12:05 pm 
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Typhoon is now being cleared for all weapons used by Tornado under project Centurion; however, what would have been used in the past depends on when Tornado would have been cancelled.

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr 2017 13:36 pm 
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Paws4thot wrote:
@DogTailRed2 - I imagine you could hang bombs in the Nimrod weapons bay, some of them had a Harpoon capability, and one of the late mods to the MR2(A) fleet gave them pylon-hung Sidewinder and hence ASRAAM capability, but if you get into dog fighting using one of those, something has gone totally messed up anyway! :sofa:

I was thinking more in terms of the tornadoes previous commitments. Has the tornado ever engaged in true dogfighting ?
Maybe low level bombing would be out of the question with my suggestions but for stand off attacks both could be viable ?

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PostPosted: Thu 13 Apr 2017 16:37 pm 
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@DogtailRed2 - I'm not sure Tornado has ever been in a blue on red with live missiles all round, but they have trained in maneuvering combat against targets using telemetry rounds, and blue on blue DACT using ACMI pods.

VC-10 has never had anywhere to put stores for release, and I'm not sure anyone has ever launched an AGM or a GBU out of a weapons bay rather than off a pylon.

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PostPosted: Fri 14 Apr 2017 21:20 pm 
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DogTailRed2 wrote:
What about Nimrod or VC10?
I'm sure both can be, or possibly were, equipped with munitions of one sort or another.
Nimrod could carry sidewinders and harpoon amongst other weapons whilst some designs of the VC-10 see it carrying skybolt.


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PostPosted: Sat 15 Apr 2017 01:00 am 
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I would've thought the choice was obvious, twin engined A-4's of course :roll: :joker:

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PostPosted: Tue 18 Apr 2017 15:07 pm 
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DogTailRed2 wrote:
Has the tornado ever engaged in true dogfighting?
To my best knowledge not even the F3 engaged in air to air combat. Not sure how true this is but according to a USN friend who was in the Joint Force Air Coordination Cell during Operation Granby (First Gulf War), when one of the F3 squadrons was tasked with providing Combat Air Patrol over Baghdad towards the end of the war, they requested a fighter escort...


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PostPosted: Tue 18 Apr 2017 17:09 pm 
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tornado F3s staged mock dogfights against Luftwaffe Mig29s- the Mig29s suffered heavily at long range but once the survivors got in close, the F3s were toast- probably the nearest thing we have to an actual combat.

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PostPosted: Tue 18 Apr 2017 17:55 pm 
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I thought the RSAF had got a kill with one of their F.3's but it was an F-15. The RAF Tornado F3 was used for defensive counter air; the main OCA effort was carried out by the USAF. On one occasion, an F3 CAP was vectored against a flight of Iraqi Mirage F1s, but was hauled off at the last moment by the AWACs, which vectored two Saudi F-15s onto the Iraqis. I think it is fair to say that the general consensus is that the subsequent engagement would have resulted in more Iraqi losses had the F3s been left to get on with it.

A GR.1 did bag a Mig-29 with a JP-233 but there is an argument as to whether it was airborne or taxiing.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017 09:50 am 
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@Czartan - Do you happen to know whether the Fins were carrying Hindenburgers or the tactical tanks? I do know that in the ACMI engagements I referred to the Fins lost when carrying Hindenburgers, due to G limitations, but won a return match when equipped with the smaller tactical tanks.

Which is partly how come some Gulf War(s) photos show GR1s with light grey Hindenburgers, and F3s with grey/green tactical tanks.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017 10:24 am 
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No idea, it was an old magazine article I read years ago in Airforces Monthly- but I don't recall any mention of what they were carrying in terms of tanks and weapons fit- the article was more interested in tactics.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017 16:49 pm 
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@czartan Ah; my source on this occasion is also AFM so I'll suggest that we're both right but read and remembered different articles, with mine being later.

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017 16:56 pm 
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most likely :D

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 14:05 pm 
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Paws4thot wrote:
@DogTailRed2 - I imagine you could hang bombs in the Nimrod weapons bay, some of them had a Harpoon capability, and one of the late mods to the MR2(A) fleet gave them pylon-hung Sidewinder and hence ASRAAM capability, but if you get into dog fighting using one of those, something has gone totally messed up anyway! :sofa:
Trials were carried out dropping 1000lb bombs from Nimrod in the 1970s. There were 2 problems, firstly there was no bomb sight so the chances of hitting anything were pretty slim, secondly the latter part of the 'stick' would not release cleanly. By the early 1990s all MR2s could carry Harpoon - the last jets to be modified were the St Mawgan ones. The Sidewinder fit wasn't a late mod to MR2 but was as a direct result of the possibility of Nimrod being able to intercept and shoot down the Argentine 707 that was being used for reconaissance during Operation CORPORATE. The fitting of the Loral YELLOWGATE ESM pods to MR2 for a time negated the carriage of Sidewinder because the wiring loom to the pylons was cut and extended to the wingtips. Again the last jets to be modified were the St Mawgan ones. IIRC this was complete by Operation GRANBY. I have no idea what you mean by MR2(A), never having heard such a designation despite time on type.

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