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 Post subject: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014 22:39 pm 
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Luftwaffe formations
Kampfgeschwader (KG) = bomber unit

KG. 51 Edelweiss = bomber unit 51 ‘Edelweiss’

A Kampfgeschwader was composed of three Gruppen, each of these having three Staffeln. Gruppen were identified by Roman numerals e.g.
I/KG.2 = 1st Group of bomber unit 2

Staffeln were identified by Arabic numerals, 1, 2 & 3 Staffeln were assigned to I Gruppen, 4, 5 & 6 Staffeln were assigned to II Gruppen and 7, 8 & 9 Staffeln were assigned to III Gruppen.
7.KG2 = 7th Squadron of the 3rd Group of bomber unit 2

Each Staffeln had a nominal strength of nine aircraft with additional aircraft for Headquarters staff. Therefore the nominal strength of a Kampfgeschwader was ninety-four aircraft.

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Wed 05 Feb 2014 23:54 pm 
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Staff flights were identified in this manner:

Stab./KG54 = HQ Staff flight of bomber unit 54
III (Stab)/KG3 = 3rd Group Staff flight of bomber unit 3

By looking at the four characters on the fuselage it is possible to find out exactly where an individual aircraft is within the Geschwader.
For example: 3Z+GS
The two forward of the Balkenkreuz are the unit identification: 3Z is that of KG77.
The G is the individual aircraft letter.
The colour of the individual letter and the fourth letter informs us which Staffel the aircraft belongs to, in this case 8 Staffel.

The Staffeln colours and letters are as follows:
BLUE- Geschwaderstab (A)
BRIGHT GREEN - I Gruppenstab (B), II Gruppenstab (C), III Gruppenstab (D), IV Gruppenstab (E), V Gruppenstab (F)
WHITE - 1(H), 4(M), 7(R), 10(U), 13(X)
RED - 2(K), 5(N), 8(S), 11(V), 14(Y)
YELLOW - 3(L), 6(P), 9(T), 12(W), 15(Z)

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Wed 12 Feb 2014 00:30 am 
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Gruppe, Staffel = singular
Gruppen, Staffeln = plural.

One Staffel, two Staffeln.

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jul 2015 12:44 pm 
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hewman100 wrote:
The Staffeln colours and letters are as follows:
BLUE- Geschwaderstab (A)
BRIGHT GREEN - I Gruppenstab (B), II Gruppenstab (C), III Gruppenstab (D), IV Gruppenstab (E), V Gruppenstab (F)
WHITE - 1(H), 4(M), 7(R), 10(U), 13(X)
RED - 2(K), 5(N), 8(S), 11(V), 14(Y)
YELLOW - 3(L), 6(P), 9(T), 12(W), 15(Z)

It would appear that spinners were painted in the same colour as the aircraft identifying letter, whether this be the whole spinner or just the tip :think:

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Tue 18 Aug 2015 15:20 pm 
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Ratch wrote:
It would appear that spinners were painted in the same colour as the aircraft identifying letter, whether this be the whole spinner or just the tip :think:

Sometimes the spinner was in the Staffel colour with a stripe or stripes or tip in Gruppe colour. Alternatively, you may have the spinner segmented to quarter or 1 third with the smaller segment in the Gruppe colour, the remainder in in black-green or Staffel colour.
'Markings and Camouflage Systems of Luftwaffe Aircraft in World War II' Karl Ries, Verlag Dieter Hoffmann, 1963.


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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Wed 06 Jul 2016 07:41 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Wed 06 Jul 2016 07:44 am 
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Mikestarmer wrote:
Ratch wrote:
It would appear that spinners were painted in the same colour as the aircraft identifying letter, whether this be the whole spinner or just the tip :think:
Sometimes the spinner was in the Staffel colour with a stripe or stripes or tip in Gruppe colour. Alternatively, you may have the spinner segmented to quarter or 1 third with the smaller segment in the Gruppe colour, the remainder in in black-green or Staffel colour.
'Markings and Camouflage Systems of Luftwaffe Aircraft in World War II' Karl Ries, Verlag Dieter Hoffmann, 1963.
This is the way i've found it to be

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Wed 06 Jul 2016 08:43 am 
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Which way :scratch: Please quote just the relevant part :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2016 19:47 pm 
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Was the spinner/ID letter being the same colour always the case or more of a rule of thumb? I'm hoping to start building my Airfix He 111 soon. The decal sheet for the build Hornchurch v Lufftwaffe Battle of Britain 70th Anniversary has the He 111 with a green ID letter and the colour guide shows yellow spinners. Which is more likely to be the correct colour for the spinners?


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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2016 20:29 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2016 20:37 pm 
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MurAustin wrote:
Was the spinner/ID letter being the same colour always the case or more of a rule of thumb?
A while back I'd have said set in stone but recent research has thrown up some anomalies :juggle: See Mike Starmers' post above :wink:
For example, looking at Ju 87 J9+BL is III.Stukageschwader I from 6 July 1940, 9 Stafel, aircraft B (in yellow). St. Pierre sur Dives then Kitzingen, Bavaria, until October. Also stated as Oblt. Otto Blumers of 9 Stafel, Stukageschwader I, based at Angers, France, summer (July – September) 1940 and St. Omer, France, (St. Pol, September – November) November 1940. J9+BL is Ju 87B, 9/St G 1, Luftflotte 2. Pas-de-Calais. Shot down into the English Channel off Dover on 14 November 1940. W.Nr. 5641. Stated as an R (long range with supplementary tanks).
The use of L as the designation of 9 Stafel seems peculiar to III.Stukageschwader I as other units use L for 3 Stafel.

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 Post subject: Re: Kampfgeschwader
PostPosted: Mon 29 Aug 2016 21:15 pm 
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Hi Ratch. Yes it seems to be a bit more confusing the more I look into it. The He 111 in question is an H4, 5J+GA (green G), werk nummer 2894 flown by Lt. Enrich Simon of KG4, based in France, 18 June 1940. The decal sheet is 72-001 from Southern Expo and has good reviews when I googled it and it looks superb. However, and to give them credit where it is due, they do say in their own write up that comes with it that there may be errors.
Cheers again for your info.


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