Airfix Logo

Humbrol Logo

The Airfix Tribute Forum was established in April 2006 to discuss the making of Airfix models.

Email: admin at airfixtributeforum.co.uk

It is currently Thu 21 Sep 2017 20:37 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri 20 Mar 2015 23:57 pm 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star

Joined: Fri 14 Nov 2008 00:54 am
Posts: 280
Location: Hampton, VA USA
: --------------------
Here's a macro shot of one of the figures from the USAAF Personnel set. I can't see any dirt on the figure, but once magnified one can see all kinds of grime on it. He's in need of a bath. BTE the detailing on this old set is still very good.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 01:32 am 
Offline
Yellow Star
Yellow Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri 27 Feb 2015 15:22 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland
: --------------------
The approach depends on the material I suppose. Is it metal, resin, hard plastic, soft plastic, the cream cheese used on occasion by HaT? Scale can make a difference, are the figures multi-part or one piece, etc., etc. A painting surface that the paint will actually stick to is what one is after, whether that means washing, painting with PVA or Gesso or using a spray primer make no odds provided that it works for you and you are comfortable using it.

I stopped washing plastic figures some time ago but I always prime them and I've used car primer from Halfords, Rustoleum, Games Workshop primer and most other matt sprays. Prefer to spray as I think it's a thinner coat and more even. Usually white these days, though did use grey for a while, didn't notice any real difference. Finishing is also important but here again it depends on what the figures are for. Mine are usually for gaming so they get a good spray of Klear, no dipping and a final coat of matt spray varnish. If you are happy with the end result, then you've done it right :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 11:48 am 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
LarryH57 wrote:
On this forum I have seen some quite incredibly detailed painting on soldiers in 1/72. My attempts at faces don't seem to go beyond flesh coloured paint, so I'd be interested in tips on this.

Secondly I often see webbing that has been accentuated with black outlines and I wonder how this is achieved as these lines seem smaller in width than my smallest brush.

Any tips greatly appreciated

To faces. There´s a couple of ways to achieve a Basic effect.
1.Brown lining, adding the shadows with a brush or a Special pen. Both ways are difficult, especially with a brush you Need a high Level of skill and Patience.. it can be toe-curling.
2.false Brown lining, painting up to the line in the way Fred has described. You still Need a decent Level of skill and works on well defined (sculpted) faces.
3 washing or inking, adding the shadows by washing with a stronger tone of paint, usually Brown for faces. I can spot this a mile away, especially if there has been no "after painting" ie highlighting.
4. Highlighting. Painting from a base colour and adding lighter tones to create shadows. I prefer this method. It won´t win any painting contests but Once you get used to it it´s fast and without closer inspection Looks good.
5. Blending the colours. Best used with larger scale figs and then with oils unless you can work fast with acrylics. I Only recommended it for "Museum" Quality paintjobs as it can go badly wrong if you don´t know what you are doing.

The accentuated lines.
These are achieved either with black lining (adding the black lines afterwards using a Paintbrush or pens) or "false" blacklining (as described by Fred)

If you look at most painted minis blacklining is used mainly to define either differences between two Areas of the same colour, ie; White straps over a White tunic or Areas of colour that are very Close to each other on the colour wheel (the hue of the colour) ie a very light blue and a light green or a light yellow and a light orange.
http://graf1x.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... poster.jpg
Most minis won´t be painted entirely using the blacklining method (link to one below) they will be a combination of blacklining, highlighting, blending etc.
The reason being the further away colours are from each other on the colour wheel the less Need to blackline; ie a White belt over a dark blue tunic. Black it too Close to dark blue so wouldn´t be noticed that much anyway.

You can black line to seperate all the different Areas but then you have to be carefull not to create a Comic/cartoon look.
This link;
http://www.jenova.dk/Blacklining.htm
Shows a "False" blacklining technique. TBH, giving the choice of colours for the mini, I personally wouldn´t have blacklined, Areas that are Close, the Skin and hair havent been blacklined but Areas that are far apart, the boots and Skin have been.

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 12:13 pm 
Offline
Site Owner
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 07:32 am
Posts: 61960
Location: Northampton UK
: Site Owner
: Administrator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
Paul H wrote:
you have to be carefull not to create a Comic/cartoon look.

And therein lies the danger :nailbite: To me, the black outlines do give a comic-like look :fear: In nature we don't see harsh outlines (this goes as much for pre-shading on aircraft and AFVs) so why the fashion in modelling :mad: Surely the shadows should just be a darker shade of the item colour rather than a stark, black outline :idea:

_________________
Living the dream
My Portfolio
My current Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 13:27 pm 
Offline
Bronze Star
Bronze Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed 13 Jul 2011 16:13 pm
Posts: 876
Location: Devon
How about depicting ethnicity in the figures? By flesh tones, I mean.
As a base, I will use Humbrol 61 on my Caucasians, and I've used Humbrol 29 on my Afro-Carribean figures.
But how about my Revell Red Indians? My Vietcong?
These are all 1/72 figures, so applying various tones and shades would be well beyond my painting skills to something of this size. I do use a dark wash do enhance the features - which works well on, particularly the Caucasians.
But, any ideas for a general base I can use for these various asians, latinos, arabs, and so forth?

_________________
My Portfolio
Current Build: Hasegawa 1/72 Kawanishi N1K2-J Shidenkai 'George' (00136)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 13:49 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
Ratch wrote:
Surely the shadows should just be a darker shade of the item colour rather than a stark, black outline :idea:


Bingo :D
A difficult Thing to do with items that are White though, like all the belts and tunics on some napoleonic figures, the French Imperial guard for example. Using Grey tones to define white doesn´t work quite as well as black or Brown. With colours like a WWII British infantry fig, the Khaki Areas (and shading) are more easily defined by adding more Brown rather than using a black border.
The bigger the scale the easier it is to use shading techniques rather than blacklining to create visual Determination of Areas of Detail.
I still use blacklining when two Areas of the exact same colour cross/border each other, particually and mainly with white (ie the belts etc on the front of a French imperial guard but have stopped using it where two colours that aren´t the same meet (ie the Hands and the cuffs of the French imperial Guard) but as Little as possible...hence I don´t often paint small scale napoleonic figs.

Image

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Last edited by Paul H on Sat 21 Mar 2015 14:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 14:18 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
Ralph wrote:
How about depicting ethnicity in the figures? By flesh tones, I mean.
As a base, I will use Humbrol 61 on my Caucasians, and I've used Humbrol 29 on my Afro-Carribean figures.
But how about my Revell Red Indians? My Vietcong?
These are all 1/72 figures, so applying various tones and shades would be well beyond my painting skills to something of this size. I do use a dark wash do enhance the features - which works well on, particularly the Caucasians.
But, any ideas for a general base I can use for these various asians, latinos, arabs, and so forth?

Good question.
The base colour affects the end result..or better said "can" affect the end result if the desired end colour is added directly to the base colour.
Example...black base and add a Gold finish. The Gold will almost inevitably look dull...but :
Black base, then paint the area where the Gold will be first with mid Brown, the Gold Ends up brighter looking. Base with black then paint over White..the White will appear Greyish.
A good way to paint for a yellow finish, especially on a black base is to first paint it mid Brown, then add a 50/50 mix of yellow and mid Brown and then yellow and Highlight with 50/50 White and yellow.

Same goes for Skin colours. I mostly (99%) base with black. Why? it works for me. You can base with any colour you want, but it will affect the next colour (s) added. Most base colours used seem to be Black/Brown or Grey.
If I´m painting for "Museum" Quality then I´ll base Grey, but that´s rare for me and requires a completely different approach to the painting.

Back to the Skin colour on black. To bring the end colour out on a caucasian Skin I´ll then paint on mid Brown, then mid Brown with a bit of flesh colour, then add a bit more flesh and finally Highlight with the second (mid Brown with a bit of flesh) but with a tiny bit of White added.
"Museum" Quality is completely different again ..the Level of inspection will be more Close up...there´s more layers and yellow and red will be added at various Points, way more complicated.

For the others, particually the latino/arabic/african Skins it´s a matter of what the end result will be compared to the base.
To achieve a dark african Skin on A Grey or Brown base would mean having to add a second layer of very dark (Grey base) or dark Brown (Brown base) paint to create the shades and then adding Highlights.
On a black base I add a dark Brown (for the lighter african Skin tones) or Highlight up from the plain black base (for the darker african tones).

Asian Skin tones..
For this lot I painted the same as if I was painting a caucasian Skin tone but added a tiny bit of yellow halfway through the process then carried on as if painting a european Skin..the yellow (not really visible in the pic) Shows through the top Highlights and gives a slight oriental look/feel.
Image
Also..and this is where the whole Thing goes into the realms of loonacy ..the lighting you use to paint by can affect the end result of any Skin tone..wether you use daylight (or daylight bulbs) to paint by or "normal" bulbs, the surface area of your painting area, the scale of the figure, the colour of the clothing it´s wearing or the Background it´s placed in.

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 14:32 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
PS..I´ll make up an how to as part of the Waterloo GB, covering, as far as possible, everything from base paint to final basing, which I suppose could be added to this thread afterwards? (or during? )
it won´t cover everything..different Skin tones, plate metal, chainmail, worn out clothing etc , just the Basics that I use for "mass look" figures.

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 15:48 pm 
Offline
Bronze Star
Bronze Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed 13 Jul 2011 16:13 pm
Posts: 876
Location: Devon
Thanks Paul.
How about trying skin tones with a wash?
A 'flesh' colour (Humbrol 61 for example)base, then applying a light wash of browns, or reds, or yellows, depending on the subject. :shrug:

_________________
My Portfolio
Current Build: Hasegawa 1/72 Kawanishi N1K2-J Shidenkai 'George' (00136)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 21 Mar 2015 18:05 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
I´ve tried washes (and inks) in the past and the result wasn´t what I was looking for, that or I didn´t have the technique right.
Wether it would create an oriental appearance by using a yellow wash on a "flesh" colour ? I assume not as it would go into the deeper parts of the face and create a yellow shadow, and oriental (as with a lot of european Skins) have a yellowish Highlight.

Mind you..there´s a few colour schemes and added to that, methods /techniques for applying them (depending on the scale of the figures etc)
http://www.coolminiornot.com/articles/1 ... -skintones

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Paul H´s Portfolio
PostPosted: Sun 22 Mar 2015 21:22 pm 
Offline
Gold Star
Gold Star

Joined: Fri 23 Mar 2012 22:48 pm
Posts: 2677
Location: UK
Very impressive work for 1:72 scale :clapping: :thumb: :nod: , you seem comfortable with any era of time.

How did you find the paint for taking and not flaking off the plastic Napoleonic 1:72 figures, do you know of any primers that can help, PVA glue is one that I have heard that other use for a primer for these figures, do you know of any others :?:
Dave.

_________________
If only everything in life was as reliable as a Kalashnikov.

Airfix member 611607


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar 2015 10:17 am 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
Rust-Oleum Specialty Plastic Primer or Latex.
Wether the Rust-Oleum stops flaking I don´t know, but the Latex sounds as if it would. PVA is a common primer and apparently works well. I was going to try it out on some figs but never got around to it as I´ve never had a Problem with flaking (the figs , not me :D )
There´s some "after" paint sealant products as well, Dullcoat for example. A lot of People swear by it, but I steer clear of it as the finish Looks to me anything but dull (ie; matt) and a few People have had thier minis turn yellow, especially the White areas. Kleer floor polish (the old Version) was another one.

When People talk about flaking, is it flaking during handling of the finished mini or just that the paint flakes off on it´s own?

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar 2015 13:02 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Fri 18 Jun 2010 13:34 pm
Posts: 10189
Location: D'Dee, N'orn I'rn
: --------------------
: Group Build Guru
: AMSIG member
Flaking; on its own.
I've just used my usual primer on a load of figures. Airfix, polythene, Emhar - resin, Italeri, - new plastic [resin?] Italeri - old plastic [silver].
As expected, the primer adhered to the figures with a little bit of flaking off the swords of the Airfix figures.
But it wouldn't stay on the silver Italeri figs at all.
I found this the same with previous sets of theirs in this silver plastic - no primer [not paint nor PVA] would stick to them and only enamel paints would stay on directly.

_________________
Al speling misteaks aer all mi own werk..
Its not just how good your painting is, its how good the touch-ups are too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar 2015 13:45 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6296
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
It just flakes off on it´s own? :shock:
Not an effect of temperature changes or being in direct sunlight?

The silver plastic from Italeri. There is definately something odd about it. I found I needed to brush the primer on a bit thicker than usual and let it dry and then check to see if it needed a second going over. So far the worst plastic for taking paint.. . The endless "fun" I had priming a set of Teutonic Knights from Italeri.

I soon started checking in the boxes to make sure they were in any colour except silver but even the silver ones I painted are (crosses fingers and touches a Piece of Wood) still Holding thier paint after (?) 10 years now.

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar 2015 15:40 pm 
Offline
Silver Bar
Silver Bar
User avatar

Joined: Fri 18 Jun 2010 13:34 pm
Posts: 10189
Location: D'Dee, N'orn I'rn
: --------------------
: Group Build Guru
: AMSIG member
I sprayed all the figures in one session. As soon as the Silver Italeri were dry the primer started to come off the horses, legs, rump, tail, neck, and areas of the riders. I put the figs on lolly sticks for painting. Just picking up the stick was enough for some flakes to come away.
A quick wash and mild scrubbing took it all off, had to, it just hurried what was already happening.
Oddly, on Teut & Crusader Knights I found this too, but direct painting with enamels the paint stayed on. No flaking. They are still painted after about 7 years.

_________________
Al speling misteaks aer all mi own werk..
Its not just how good your painting is, its how good the touch-ups are too.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

The Airfix Tribute Forum

The Airfix Tribute Forum - Est. 2006 | Make a Donation


modelsforsale.com