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PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2013 21:11 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Nov 2013 21:47 pm 
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None of the kit manufacturers have ever got the scheme correct on any model of a British tank. The Academy Stuart in both scales is way off. The Bronco 1/35 A13 managed just one side view of one subject, you have to guess the rest! In addition their other two subjects were even worse as the schemes they chose were for two 5 RTR tanks in Libya that actually carried a two coloured design that was intended for Greece. The Airfix and Tamiya examples are both based on an inaccurate colour profile that appeared in the 1970s Profile series, long out of print. I have been able to reconstruct the three basic designs from numerous pictures and a copy of the official 1940 drawing that shows the layout on an A9 tank. E-mail me or message and I can attach copies to you.


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PostPosted: Thu 10 Apr 2014 08:48 am 
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Hi,

I'm quite enjoying building my Airfix Matilda currently which I painted in the Caunter Scheme. Researching the colours was fun and I mixed a good bit of paint.

So currently I'm thinking of building the Tamiya Crusader I / II in 1/48 scale... I'm however struggling to find the exact pattern of Caunter 'stripes' as applied to the Crusader.

Can anyone help???

Thanks in advance...

John

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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Tue 15 Apr 2014 20:05 pm 
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Caunter scheme pattern for Crusader
Yes I can, I have my own drawing based on the original 1940 issue for cruiser tanks and assessments from several contemporary photographs. There will very soon be an article printed in a mainstream magazine, cannot immediately recall which, dealing with Caunter patterning on several tanks used during 1941.


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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Tue 15 Apr 2014 21:02 pm 
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Was the Caunter scheme ever applied to Grants?

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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Fri 18 Apr 2014 09:23 am 
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The Caunter scheme was only applied to AFVs and vehicles in service from 1940 till December 1941, not thereafter so no Grants carried the scheme. The tanks that did carry it were the A series cruisers, Vickers Lt. tanks, Matilda II, Stuarts, Crusader and Valentine. The G.O. was formally cancelled in December 1941 but documentary evidence indicates that actual painting of the scheme finished in October 1941. The photographic evidence for this is that during the later phases of Operation Crusader Stuarts, Crusaders and Valentines all appear carrying the I.D. marking specific to that operation but in a single overall colour. That would not have happened without a specific order. The first issued M3 Lee and Grants were only one basic colour.


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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Tue 22 Apr 2014 23:59 pm 
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Thanks Mike. Shame though!

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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug 2014 08:57 am 
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If the Caunter scheme was only applied to AFVs and vehicles in service from 1940 till December 1941, then I guess this helps date this vehicle's introduction to that period, though if the Germans didn't repaint it, then it could have stayed like this till 1943, if it lasted that long! For those old enough to remember, the German in the truck looks like Harpo from the Marx Brothers! :lol:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y228/Larry58/CapturedCMPF15No11cab.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug 2014 23:21 pm 
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AAMOI why was discontinued? Was it not worth the effort?

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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug 2014 20:37 pm 
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The CMP in the picture was captured from 2nd A.D. when they were badly defeated and dispersed by Rommel's advance in March and April 1941. The 2nd were disbanded in May 1941 due to almost total loss of equipment and men both in Greece and Libya. Most captured British vehicles retained their British scheme. The exceptions were some reworked CMPs that had German light weapons mounted on them, such as 20mm AA or 37mm a/t. The captured Dorchesters Moritz and Max simply had the fronts and part sides repainted with some solid colour then roughly dappled with a darker colour while all of the rest retained the Caunter patterning.

The change of scheme came about due the general shortage of paint and that the final destination of vehicles could no longer be known at the time of painting due to the rapid warfare developments. You must realise that by December 1941 there was unrest in Palestine (nothing changes), Trans Jordan and Syria and fighting in East Africa and Sudan against the Italians there. In addition the Greeks had already been promised help if required and a few British units were already in Greece and Crete as small vanguards. ( How do I know about Crete? I have an April dated copy of a report by a camouflage officer who surveyed Crete regarding a suitable scheme for that Island). Most of the vehicles required by the army in those regions had to be processed through Egyptian based depots and each needed its own scheme. Since from December 1941 Commands were allowed to apply a single disruptive colour that best suited that Command area, it was deemed that only a single colour would be applied at Base Ordnance Workshops. That colour was specified as Light Stone No.61 although we know from photographs that Portland Stone No.64 was also applied in order to exhaust existing stocks. The Malta 'Rubble' scheme is an example and the Australians in Palestine used Light Stone and Dark Green No.7 as the disrupter in a scheme that resembled the UK MTP.20 design although they had specific patterns for their vehicles. too. I hope this explains the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Thu 28 Aug 2014 19:40 pm 
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Ratch can you remove the link in my Photobucket in my above post. I can then post the link to the photo directly


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 Post subject: Re: The Caunter Scheme
PostPosted: Sat 30 Aug 2014 14:12 pm 
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I do enjoy these threads, they are fantastically informative.....Thanks to all! :thumb:

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