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 Post subject: USAAF Olive Drab
PostPosted: Sun 18 Oct 2015 08:43 am 
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The fact is that the modeller finishes the model the way they like. There's no wrong way and the right way is the way the modeller wants it. If you didn't see anything weathered in my portfolio you didn't look far enough


I see your point. It is then perhaps a matter of personal taste, in my case. Just bought 6 tanks in 76th scale from a friend who has plenty to sell and 5 euros each, Shermans and Tigers, a Priest and a Wespe, and I intend to make them slightly weathered, esp. those in the yellow western desert scheme. They are all Fujimi and Hasegawa and Matchbox and Esci. Those made by Matchbox UK have bases for them, which show rubble and debris....and that calls for some weathering.
I shall have a closer look at your portfolio.


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PostPosted: Sun 25 Oct 2015 21:08 pm 
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In response to the original question, I doubt that you will find a single reference as you suggest since no one to my knowledge has tried to do it. For the simple reason that to produce a set of accurate colour swatches for historic colours you need examples of those colours. All of those colours existed in standards long ago withdrawn. You need to find out which standards they were, then obtain them. From my experience this last 40 years this is extremely difficult now and wasn't easy when I started my series in 1980 but at least then I had the advantage of knowing which standards to use and they were available albeit with some difficulty to borrow long enough to run mixing test against them. Subsequently world wide contacts have provided further information and samples.

Read my note about US Army Olive Drab No.9. Sure there were variations but not widely so. In this case there have been several opinions as to which FS number/colour matches No.9. However none actually do so since the US Army changed the standard i.e. appearance of the colour in 1943, again in the 1950s and again 1980s and now 1996 edition. All of these are 'Olive Drab'. Modern restorers are the least likely to know which is the correct colour or scheme since I discovered that the firms that sell the paint to them either use modern equivalents, which are not matches, or plain guesswork. After all, they want to sell their product, right or wrong.

As for British vehicle colours for WW2 I have for the most part been able to match those against the original standards for 1930 and 1942. It is the mixes for those that I post in response to colour questions in various forums. The colour swatches are in my series of booklets about British camouflage policy and practice together with the relevant orders and diagrams.


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015 13:01 pm 
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Yellow Star
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:D I had a similar issue today but not with an aircraft, but with the Matchbox Wespe German slef-propelled gun. I was looking for the green shade that goes on German camouflaged vehicles and a long search in the net in AFV sites revealed that each modeller had a diffferent shade to propose, all close ebnough, but different. So I settled finally to what looked good to my eye against the dark yellow background (overall colour).

I therefore imagine this shade issue exists for all colours, whatever the model, and I do remember the endless discussion when the US Navy changed into the low visibilty colours, where no two people agreed on any grayish shade and even the paint manufacturers produced the same FS number in differing shades.

I am now facing a similar issue with the my figures for the Wespe--what colour is the uniform? Many answers here too.

So I agree with the poster above who says it is up to the modeller to choose.

Nick

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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015 15:27 pm 
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I think you've just discovered something quite significant about colour perception, Nick, and how individuals see the same colour differently. Personally, the more I explore the many variables affecting colour representation, the more I'm amazed that we reach the degree of consensus we do on 'agreed' colours.

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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015 18:08 pm 
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There are indeed many factors that influence how the colour of a particular vehicle is perceived- time since last repaint, etc. And indeed it is very much the interpretation of the modeller, as well.

But, I'm not so sure there was as wide a variation in colour as some people are suggesting here. I'm fairly certain that with the UK (and I have no doubt with the US and Canada, as well), the production standards were very tightly controlled, after all there was a real emphasis on consistent and uniform colouration. There is a reminiscence on t'internet from a Ministry of Supply inspector, who talked about testing (and rejecting) paint batches both chemically and by paint swatch- if they weren't within a quite close range, they were rejected.

Much as I'm all for modellers choice, I feel there has to be some element of research, lest we get, as in the restoration world, some very strange colours- sky-blue 'tillys come to mind, or grey Morris CS8s with squadron numbers.

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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015 19:30 pm 
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Dordogne Dodger wrote:
...I'm amazed that we reach the degree of consensus we do on 'agreed' colours.

Wait, there are agreed colours? :rotfl:

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PostPosted: Mon 26 Oct 2015 20:03 pm 
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Yes- olive drab is green....(ish, perhaps, maybe)

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PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct 2015 10:39 am 
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The military restoration world is another planet altogether. Perfect to the last shim and splitpin but camouflage and colours! But there is hope. There exists a Morris 8cwt in the correct Caunter colours, nearly, and the correct pattern too. The 'sand' colour is the current Light Stone 361 not the wartime shade. I have seen it and spoken to the owner. One or two other restorers are beginning to have a rethink too.


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PostPosted: Fri 30 Oct 2015 12:50 pm 
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I hope so... It's a bit like 'spoiling the ship, for a ha'perth of tar' when you see the time, money & effort (and research) that's gone into the mechanicals and technicals, but any old paint slapped on.

...I'm not a 'rivet counter' by any means, but there is enough information out there to get a good approximation, at least.

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PostPosted: Mon 02 Nov 2015 21:59 pm 
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I am not sure that Wespes were ever used in North Africa and Tunisia, Matchbox notwithstanding. The 'yellow & green' scheme might be more appropriate for Italy or Russia. RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb basic with RAL 6003 Olivgrun would be the scheme. But historical accuracy aside then for Tunisia RAL 8020 Brun basic with RAL 7027 Grau in bands over 33 % of the surface. Don't be deceived by the names, Brun is orange and Grau is brown. For 8020 3 x H94 + 1 x H61 is fine, for 7027 5 x H110 +1 x H34 is good too. These are based on swatches in Tomas Chory's book on German army colours.


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PostPosted: Mon 02 Nov 2015 22:52 pm 
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If you do decide to place your Wespe in north Africa, you can equip the figures in any shade you like. All sides robbed each others' stores so mixes of British, Italian and German kit were the norm.

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