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PostPosted: Sun 11 Apr 2010 23:38 pm 
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I've not had any problems with 1/72 and the bottles I've had have no such qualification, so it's probably down to Phil getting feedback from customers who've not used it successfully. These are all 1/72 and have pretty fine lines, especially the Meteor:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Next time I see Phil I will try and remember to take this question up with him.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 13:50 pm 
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feanor wrote:
Today I spent an afternoon amongst real Aircraft, and  NEVER saw one.  Even on the Mig 15...


Agreed, they make a model look a bit toy'ee for me. Different strokes though!

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 14:34 pm 
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genus wrote:
Agreed, they make a model look a bit toy'ee for me. Different strokes though!


Horses for courses 'n all that. For me toy like is when you have expanses of flat colour without any light, shade or texture. Indiscriminate panel washes, especially when black is used, can lead to a very toy like appearance, but if appropriate colours are used in conjunction with highlights and fading then you can get a good effect. Bombs Away understands this, that's why his box arts look so spectacular.

Stu, check out  this Mig-15. The panel lines are very visible, the trick is in reproducing the same effect on a model!

I've done a fair few walk rounds on Cessnas, aircraft that have overlapping panels. Even then you still get a build up of dirt or wear at the panel lap, very subtle, but there nonetheless. Of course the modellers themselves are the final arbiter on what they perceive as realistic. Do your own thing and enjoy, but it's worth pushing your personal envelope now and then, you might get a bit more out of it.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 16:04 pm 
Ayup Paul...

Again the points you bring up are valid, and no- ones for a moment saying that pre or post-shading is wrong. Or that Phils stuff isn't useful. Horses for and all that indeed, and there are models out there that definately improve for their use. But It didn't work for me, and that's a shame. BTW, My stuffs from the VERY first Batch.

I think you notice the panels and seams on Aircraft like the Mig 15 mainly because of dents in the metal myself and the differing ways the light reflects off the surface. I think you just can't see them on 'Dark' camo painted Aircraft, but they're there !

But representing those dents IS an art and beyond my poor skills as they are ! Someone asked a coupla months ago how one did that, and I can't say. But using just a wash isn't the way, I don't think. maybe someone here has the answer ?


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 16:26 pm 
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feanor wrote:
I think you just can't see them on 'Dark' camo painted Aircraft, but they're there !


They most definitely are:

Image

I think a lot of the time it is a question of perception, we're not always aware of what we're looking at. :wink:

The trick with weathering and washes is to make the panel lines obvious without the viewer realising it. Or put another way, do just enough without over-doing it.

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 17:14 pm 
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feanor wrote:
My stuffs from the VERY first Batch.

How can you tell  :scratch:

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 17:22 pm 
Ratch wrote:
feanor wrote:
My stuffs from the VERY first Batch.

How can you tell  :scratch:


Ayup Boss...

I bought it when it VERY first came out. There were only two shades, Dark and Light. they're still almost fully full !


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 17:24 pm 
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Ha  :roll:  I thought you had it printed on the label or something  :oops:

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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 17:40 pm 
Ratch wrote:
Ha  :roll:  I thought you had it printed on the label or something  :oops:


Ayup Boss...

Like this...  :wink:

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I think the label's changed a little since then has it   :?:


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PostPosted: Mon 12 Apr 2010 17:44 pm 
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Yes, mine has the same words, but the
Pro
Modeller

logo (with a brush) is in dark red above  :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon 21 Feb 2011 20:20 pm 
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In view of certain other comments, I've bumped this thread  :blob:

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PostPosted: Mon 21 Feb 2011 20:59 pm 
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For me, using only a brush for painting, I have been able to get good results using the "old school" wash--like so:

Image

I tried this as an experiment, had success, then forgot all about it immediately  :oops:  and tried to figure out a way to use the "artist's oils" or "sludge wash" or "ink wash" or one of the methods developed by airbrush users and they do not work (for me).  But I think you can see that the old school wash works well, and it's dead easy.  When the model is glossed up prior to decaling, I mix up some black enamel and mineral spirits and take a tiny brush and paint it along the panel lines.  The effect looks like I "pre-shaded" and everything.

Now, why didn't I just continue to do this, instead of wasting time trying other experiments?  Because the power of suggestion and peer pressure and who-knows had me hypnotized.  

But now I have seen the light.

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PostPosted: Mon 21 Feb 2011 21:57 pm 
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I think that's what the armour guys call a pin wash Dancho.

Personally I don't see that there is any bearing on weathering techniques that are used after the basic paint is applied, weather brushed or airbrushed. Just do whatever works for you.

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb 2011 10:41 am 
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I've looked into this pro-modellers stuff (never actually tried it though), but I find that regular water-soluble paints mixed with tap-water and a drop or two of dish-washing soap have about the same properties as the pro-modeller stuff and work just as well, if not better then the pro-modeller/flory stuff.

Water soluble paints are above all available at just about every art-supplies store near you and in just about every color you can possible think of and for the price of one bottle of pro-modeller/flory stuff I can buy 3 or 4 different colors 'regular' water soluble paints. So I think it's very unlikely I'll be trying any of it any time soon.

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb 2011 11:01 am 
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creeping_death:302490 wrote:
I've looked into this pro-modellers stuff (never actually tried it though)....work just as well, if not better then the pro-modeller/flory stuff.


If you never tried it, how do you know? If your method works, great, but it is somewhat unfair to be critical of something you never tried.

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb 2011 12:12 pm 
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@ peebeep
I never intended to be unfair towards flory/pro-modeller or knock 'em or anything. Perhaps my remark about one way working better then the other was somewhat unnecessary and unfair :wink: (I agree it's up to every individual to make up their mind about it) I've studied the tutorials on their site quite a bit, and the technique I use appears to be working exactly the same ( everything that's being described on their site can be done also with the techique I use) except it has no flory/pro-modeller label on it.

It's true, it's rather a matter of me having learned about a way that works great for me. Although it is my believe that even without having worked with the actual product the technique I described has a number of significant advantages over the pro-modeller/flory product.

- Nearly unlimited flexibility when it comes down to colors available
- The cost of the flory product versus the cost of a few water soluble paints and some dishwashing soap.
- The same flexibility when it comes to actually using it (thick, thin, mess-ups that can be easily undone etc.)

These advantages aren't just applicable in this situation, in my humble opinion it's something worth considering in a lot more situations. Pigments are a prime example.

The art-supplies store is your friend  :D

On the other hand, from a convenience point of view things like ready made washes and pre-selected pigments are more easy. Shake the bottle and get going.

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb 2011 18:51 pm 
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I find that my washes work best when I use a cabbage stump dipped in a dirty puddle and applied liberally.  :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Feb 2011 20:23 pm 
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At this moment in time i find this whole subject :scratch:  Mike

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PostPosted: Sun 16 Oct 2016 16:21 pm 
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I use Flory dark wash and have never had an issue, so long as it goes on to a gloss base rather than matt or satin. I also thin it 50/50 with water and add a dash of Fairy washing up liquid :D

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