Airfix Logo

Humbrol Logo

The Airfix Tribute Forum was established in April 2006 to discuss the making of Airfix models.

Email: admin at airfixtributeforum.co.uk

It is currently Sat 23 Sep 2017 03:12 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2016 14:08 pm 
Offline
White Star
White Star

Joined: Tue 12 Apr 2016 15:28 pm
Posts: 31
: --------------------
I've recently heard some rumors about this. According to certain prohibitions on European countries (don't know the Usa, though, but i was using Humbrol's and it's made in UK :lol: ) due to their "heavy" ingredients, they will not be sold in a near future anymore.

Is that true ? Apart from their heavy smell, i actually liked to use them; they were strong, had vast amount of shades, actually chemically penetrates into plastic (not just laid down and can be removed like Vallejo's) and so on..

I really wish that paint companies like Humbrol or Testors would find a way to reduce these so-called dangerous materials inside these paints yet to maintain these features. As long as sprayed with a paint mask (or do not inhale the paint smell by any means), it's actually harmless (at least i suppose so, it should be so :Doctor: ), but the particles hung up on air stinks the room still, and i assume they do not disappear completely; they just lay down on the carpet, walls, computer, even on the bed i sleep every night :cold:

Anyway, what are your thoughts ? Should enamels are not to be sold anymore, what would you do ?

I actually converted into Vallejo's Model Air after seeing that they are releasing a bunch of (at least 80) new colors for their once-fairly-low-numbered Model Air series. After a detailed comparison, i've seen that nearly all of the current (and discontinued) Humbrol shades will be in Model Air as well. Not sure about the exact shades, though. Gunze is quite renowned about their %100 accuracy for hitting the right color spot :)

P.S: I put all of my Humbrol enamels in a closed, secured work-box. They'll be as precious as gold after 10 years, i say :yahoo:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2016 16:14 pm 
Offline
Gold & Silver Stars
Gold & Silver Stars
User avatar

Joined: Wed 11 Nov 2009 19:24 pm
Posts: 4529
Location: Chelmsford
If there's upcoming regs that lead to the prohibition of enamels it would be news to Alclad and Mr Paint, both companies have introduced new enamel ranges recently. The truth is acrylic media can contain substances every bit as hazardous as those in enamel, especially in the case of 2K paints, there's no more reason to ban enamels than acrylics.

peebeep

_________________
peebeep aka Paul Brown
IPMS Locate and Cement website
http://www.locate-and-cement.com
RevellAtions
Bring me my chariot of fire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2016 17:36 pm 
Offline
Bronze Star
Bronze Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue 11 Dec 2012 20:39 pm
Posts: 958
Location: SW France
Bit of a long story squeezed up so much it reads funny, innit? Go back a piece and the EC were intent on eliminating cellulose paint. The only exceptions were going to be 'professional' car restorers who, if i remember correctly, were only going to be allowed to hold it in 4 gallon lots. Never quite came true, but cellulose/laquer paint, much prized still in the model engineering world, is far rarer now than 30 years ago and 'true' (nitro-)cellulose thinners extremely hard to obtain. Meanwhile various substances used in enamel paints were being labelled 'cancer causing' and we were being told we shouldn't use them.

Well, lots of things (including water) do you harm if you abuse them enough. Acrylics weren't exempt either. Remember the original Tamiya acrylics, which in my book were the nastiest-smelling critters ever invented? Something in them apparently found its way onto the EC 'banned substances' list, so the paints disappeared from the shelves for a while, until Tamiya could re-invent them using something different, smelling slightly less offensive (but still refusing to 'take' or cover on most surfaces, especially unprimed plastic). But we were still being urged to switch from enamel to acrylic because enamel fumes were 'toxic' - ignoring the way acrylic paint works, undergoing a chemical reaction once its carrier has evaporated so that it becomes, in effect, plastic (which it will do inside your lungs if you've breathed it in from spraying without using a proper mask, so healthy it ain't; I have to admit I do occasionally spray enamel with just a 'dust' mask, because it's more comfortable, but any time there's acrylic in the airbrush it's out with the proper respirator).

And to make enamel 'healthier' manufacturers have been frantically changing ingredients, the effect of almost all of which is to make it less useful, less reliable, and often a downright waste of space (putting further pressure on users to move to acrylic). So it's entirely possible there will be a further push to 'outlaw' enamel and make us all use something supposedly safer but actually just as dangerous and, as paint, barely fit for purpose. If it happens I predict a cycle will immediately start of suggesting maybe we should switch to something more environmentally friendly than acrylic - I know, how about cellulose/laquer? It's a natural product ...

_________________
Just Another Plastic Hacker
View my workbench (D3C2) here


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 13 Jun 2016 19:25 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Fri 23 Apr 2010 19:46 pm
Posts: 6300
Location: NRW
: --------------------
: Portfolio
Slammer88 wrote:
Is that true ?

In Short..no. This has been bouncing around on German Forums since..er?..2004, and something to do with, at the time, the upcoming REACH regs. which were to harmonise production and sale of chemicals within and imported to europe. Hier a lot of chemicals were re-ordered (given new labelling, new Containers and methods of use) and some used in Industrie were replaced, as with what DD wrote about the car Industrie, but that was 2007/2008.
Revell, for example, re-formated it´s paint range but enamels, Humbrol, Revell, Tamiya etc are still available.
Peebeep has it. Basically, taken to the end logic all paints, thinners, glues etc would have to restricted to only industrial/professional use with all the H&S stuff attached.

_________________
I knew the truck didn´t want to hit me....it had Dodge written on the front!
(32 down - 27 to go)
My ATF Portfolio
My ATF Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jun 2016 07:27 am 
Offline
White Star
White Star

Joined: Tue 12 Apr 2016 15:28 pm
Posts: 31
: --------------------
What you've all written is probably right. I say probably, because i'm fairly new on modelling -3 years- and don't know when this "ban" story has first begun :lol: . As i said, the things i've heard are merely rumours from elderly people in modelling.

It's true that, Tamiya - Gunze (maybe even Vallejo's) are hazardous as much as enamels, as they contain alcohol. But, on a second thought, in our daily lives we're living with much more dangerous stuff like cigarettes, car exhaust fumes, air pollution, food additives etc..

However, i've also heard that Airfix / Humbrol is economically in such a bad situation for a while, upon which owner of our local modeller shop said that it'll be quite hard to find Humbrol / Airfix products in Turkey from now on.. :cold:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jun 2016 21:46 pm 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star

Joined: Fri 21 May 2010 20:32 pm
Posts: 253
Location: St Leonards-on-sea East sussex
Spray painting in a living space is a bad idea not only are all paints slightly toxic, the solvents in them are inflammable and just to really please the fire brigade some manufactures use butane gas as a propellant. Old fashion nitro cellulose will burn the lining off your stomach if you do not wear a mask , professionals used to drink milk to off set this. It is the worst fire risk, I have lost at least one flying scale plane to its ease of igniting! Governments of all shades have been trying to reduce our solvent use for decades lets hope paint makers keep one step ahead.

_________________
nigel bee  There are old pilots and bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 15 Jun 2016 02:27 am 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2007 02:47 am
Posts: 6794
Location: Minnesota, USA
: Model Portfolio
The handwriting is on the wall. Revell makes a good paint for brushing...

_________________
“Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to, and above all, have fun.”
- Al Superczynski (1947 - 2007)

dancho's model collection dancho's blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat 30 Jul 2016 20:56 pm 
Offline
Silver Star
Silver Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat 19 Nov 2011 16:02 pm
Posts: 1733
£25 buys a face mask that removes both vapour and particle contaminants from paint when spray painted.
If brush painting in a ventilated room with no mask all paints are safe.

_________________
"Watch out for the escorts!"
My Workbench
My Portfolio


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 05 Jan 2017 13:56 pm 
Offline
Yellow Star
Yellow Star

Joined: Tue 21 Apr 2015 08:30 am
Posts: 69
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK
: --------------------
We've had no indications that we can't make and sell enamel paints, and indeed we continue to do so. And excellent ones at that, if I do say so myself. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 05 Jan 2017 15:32 pm 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2007 02:47 am
Posts: 6794
Location: Minnesota, USA
: Model Portfolio
I'm glad you're still making ye olde painte, and I don't suppose they'll outlaw it until the last of us old dogs have crossed over, but acrylic paint is better than enamel in every way, unless you're trying to spray it through an airbrush. I'm sending you a PM about paint formulation.

_________________
“Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to, and above all, have fun.”
- Al Superczynski (1947 - 2007)

dancho's model collection dancho's blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 05 Jan 2017 17:25 pm 
Offline
Blue Star
Blue Star

Joined: Tue 20 Sep 2016 09:55 am
Posts: 517
Location: Scotland
: --------------------
@"nigel bee" - "some manufactures use butane gas as a propellant" only applies to aerosols; airbrushes use compressed air!

_________________
"Is there anything I can do to help you?"
"Yes. Give me a staffel of Spitfires!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan 2017 19:36 pm 
Offline
Yellow Star
Yellow Star

Joined: Tue 21 Apr 2015 08:30 am
Posts: 69
Location: Aberdeenshire, Scotland, UK
: --------------------
dancho wrote:
but acrylic paint is better than enamel in every way, unless you're trying to spray it through an airbrush.
I'm afraid I cannot agree with you there. Whilst I can use and have liked some alcohol based acrylics, I utterly despise the ammonia smelling water based ones with a passion. It was one ammonia smelling water based acrylic brand in particular that caused me one too many destroyed models that pushed me to ensure the continuation of my favourite enamel brand by buying it when the original owners became insolvent.

I simply cannot accept such a comparison like the above as being valid. The best acrylic brands are better than the worst enamel brands but the best enamels are equally miles better than the worst acrylics. They have different characteristics which better match different users' different needs and preferences. I like (demand?) good adhesion, an extremely smooth finish and good coverage to avoid flooding surface detail. I can live with a 45 minute wait between colours before handling, and when brushing in details the longer working time before it skins is an advantage.

Likes and dislikes of paints and attributes that make them better or worse is sometimes technical and sometimes personal. I absolutely hate the ammonia type water thinned acrylics though and will never consider making them under our brand.

Our brand is solid and one of exceptional quality - paints which paints on like milk, give a rubbery finish and which peel off in sheets sometimes but not others under Tamiya masking tape is not something I plan to ruin our reputation for quality with. Ammonia type acrylics don't adhere to modelling materials. Your milage may vary but for me personally, that's a total non-starter. It just cost me a few models realising that it actually wasn't me and that the paints genuinely were the problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 08 Jan 2017 21:33 pm 
Offline
Bronze Star
Bronze Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue 11 Dec 2012 20:39 pm
Posts: 958
Location: SW France
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: Well spoken; more power to your elbow (or whatever they use to mix paint these days)! Acrylics may have their place, but there is nothing to match a well-formulated, well-covering smooth-drying enamel, whether applied by brush or spray. :nod: :nod: :nod:

_________________
Just Another Plastic Hacker
View my workbench (D3C2) here


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jan 2017 00:57 am 
Offline
Site Owner
User avatar

Joined: Sat 22 Apr 2006 07:32 am
Posts: 61951
Location: Northampton UK
: Site Owner
: Administrator
: Group Build Guru
: Group Build Leader
: Model Portfolio
:ot: Let's not let this topic degenerate into an argument of Acrylics vs Enamels :ot:

_________________
Living the dream
My Portfolio
My current Workbench


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jan 2017 01:48 am 
Offline
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
Two Gold & Bronze Stars
User avatar

Joined: Thu 13 Dec 2007 02:47 am
Posts: 6794
Location: Minnesota, USA
: Model Portfolio
Ummmmmm. That's cool, man. You do your thing.

_________________
“Build what YOU want, the way YOU want to, and above all, have fun.”
- Al Superczynski (1947 - 2007)

dancho's model collection dancho's blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 09 Jan 2017 18:04 pm 
Offline
Red Star
Red Star

Joined: Sun 10 Feb 2013 20:08 pm
Posts: 381
Location: Sevenoaks, Kent
Personally, I don't understand how anyone can't see the virtues in both. I am confused as to some comments about the smell of acrylics. I use Revell Aqua Colour, a few Humbrol acrylics and Tamiya and they are virtually odorless. Some Model Air have a slightly 'sweet' smell but not unpleasant.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

The Airfix Tribute Forum

The Airfix Tribute Forum - Est. 2006 | Make a Donation


modelsforsale.com