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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017 01:34 am 
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A most splendiferous engagement and use of time! I love the unique range rulers, templates and the cannon bounce mechanic! Loving the play by play and little vignettes included!

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017 08:53 am 
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wingnutmike wrote:
Was this actual casualties, or just for wargaming purposes?
Mike

Just for the wargame.
gijoe wrote:
A most splendiferous engagement and use of time! I love the unique range rulers, templates and the cannon bounce mechanic! Loving the play by play and little vignettes included!

Thanks :)
The "Grapeshot" template I´ve copied from the Airfix rules, the colour coding for areas of "lethality" is my Adaptation.
The rifle/musket fire stick was just to save time measuring out
The Cannon bounce stick. There´s a Long Explanation to that one which I´ll add at the end :)

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Apr 2017 20:12 pm 
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The confederate guns fire again on the 22nd USCT...and the USCT´s luck holds..misses or saves
Image
The fight on the road reaches it´s conclusion. The conferate cav, now surrounded, loose another 2 bods but take another 2 Union cav. Both throw for Moral and both run. The remaining Conderate cav takes 4 7th Winsconsin for no losses but being entirely surrounded loose the Moral throw and leave.
On the hill, the 3rd Texas Infantry get mauled, loosing 6 and taking only one Jayhawker in return.
At this Point, with virtually all his infantry and all his cavalry either in retreat or having left the field, General S. Tore, throws in the towel...hitches up the guns and leaves.
The 3rd Texas Infantry down Tools and surrender.
John & Victoria come out of thier hiding place under the bed to find a couple of dislodged Roof tiles.
Image

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017 01:44 am 
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Great game report Paul,
I loved your use of determinedly "Old School" gadgets for hit and casualty adjudication. This has been a terrific project to follow and just looks so very good. You know, there's this magazine what would probably print a write up of the project*.
Regards,
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*Wargamer's Notes Quarterly
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PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017 07:53 am 
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Thanks Greg :)
PM sent :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017 09:48 am 
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Lovely old fashioned wargame, it looks tremendous fun.

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PostPosted: Thu 20 Apr 2017 10:12 am 
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Thanks :)
It was fun. The old Airfix rules suited the idea behind the Project. I added a couple of bits but refrained (in the main) from adding any realism rules..None of those endless Moral, movement etc tables for this one :)

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PostPosted: Sat 22 Apr 2017 19:28 pm 
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Conclusion?
The old Airfix rules are a bit "stumpy" , the firing tables for a start are a bit odd, but they appear to work fair enough.
I set up the field "blind"..first randomly Setting up the Terrain then putting troops as the ground allowed. When I´d finished, I thought "the Union is going to get a kicking" but they won Hands down...possibly too well.?
Anyways, the next battle I´ll test the rule set "Charge Boys Charge !" by Andy Copestake with my daughter taking Charge of one of the sides.

The funny coloured stick? It´s my idea for an artillery measuring stick. It´s not in the Airfix rules, there it´s suggested that Players "judge" the distance to the target, then measure it out...and bla bla. :roll:
I thought to add two firework rocket sticks (saved for constructing a 1/32nd scale Trebuchet) together and use that for measuring the range ..but then I thought "but cannon balls bounce" so I added the Loop bits (coloured blue..blue? sky..blue? Artistic licence? ) to represent a ball loosing power and bouncing less and less higher and further.
Then I thought "as they bounce, sometimes they are Close to the ground, then up in the air, then Close to the ground before they bounce again etc..and as they are Close to the ground they would hit things, men horses etc" So I marked those zones before and after Impact as;
Red for anything up to 2 cm´s tall (infantry) and ...
Yellow for 2 to 2.5cm´s tall (cavalry)
The green areas are where the ball would be too high to hit anything, on foot or mounted
At the Business end I added a movable square . This was to replace the suggested marker template that would indicate wether a shot had gone off target.

Image
Lay the stick onto the centre of the target. Throw a one, the shot goes to the right, a 6 it goes to the left red marker.(the bold red marks..not the faint ones..they were a mistake :oops: )

Obviously, I never thought about the "danger zones" before adding the "hoops" and I could remove them but ...what the heck? ...and obviously the hoops are a Basic representation, as a cannon ball wouldn´t bounce as far in muddy ground or it would bounce further on rocky ground or it would hit a rock and alter course but ...!!!!...??! ARGH!!! :hithead:
Although that might be fun for someone to come up with a realistic calculus for such stuff..and then do it for 12 and whatever pounder guns...I just think, In trying to Keep within the Spirit of "old School" wargaming, I´ve already gone too far with the funny coloured stick......and had to remind myself..."it´s just a game!!!" :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 11:25 am 
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I get it, I totally get it. For reasons, I have to know something about ricochet, and accurately modelling it is one of the ways that madness lies.

For your purposes, a sensible refinement would be that ricochet only occurs in "direct fire", so don't use it if the muzzle elevation is greater than 25 degrees relative to the initial landing site (not an issue with those guns at Cannon Farm, but if you'd had, say 10" Parrots firing off a 500' elevation summit it would have been).

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 11:29 am 
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I gave up with the Airfix rules fairly early on, I will be trying out Fire and Fury to see how they go.

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 16:20 pm 
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Paws4thot wrote:
For your purposes, a sensible refinement would be that ricochet only occurs in "direct fire", so don't use it if the muzzle elevation is greater than 25 degrees relative to the initial landing site (not an issue with those guns at Cannon Farm, but if you'd had, say 10" Parrots firing off a 500' elevation summit it would have been).
And there´s the rub. I agree about it being only used in direct fire but What if the gun is elevated at not 25° but at say 20° and firing across open ground, grassland but that ground is broken by a ploughed section and then again grassland ? The flatter the trajectory and the harder the ground the longer and flatter the bounces. The computations to get every single possible sitution and condition would be a book in itsself and probably still not cover everything...definetely the way of madness :hithead:
czartan wrote:
I gave up with the Airfix rules fairly early on, I will be trying out Fire and Fury to see how they go.
I too stopped using them years ago but took them up again for the purpose of this Project. Basically I was trying to ignore everything, rules included, that I wouldn´t have done as a nipper. Mind you, that said I did, as a nipper, wargame with Napoleonics with some 14,000 figs plus and using the "Rules for Wargames Napoleonic Warfare" (3rd Edition) by Newbury Rules with the army Points adapted. With all the tables for this and that the the games would last for days!!!
I´ve still got the Newbury rules and after another game or two I will take bits and pieces from the Airfix, Charge Boys Charge! and the newbury ones and see if I can come up with a "easy but more or less correct" rule set. ...then after that, some Medieval/Fantasy using the 1979 third Edition of "Chainmail" :clap: :clap:

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 16:25 pm 
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My current projects are "En Garde" using Redoubt miniatures musketeer figures and refighting Falkirk Muir using paper soldiers

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 17:03 pm 
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@Paul H which is pretty much my point. Unless you want to identify the terrain type of every square inch of your field you can't always accurately model when ricochet would occur. What you can say is that above a certain angle of incidence shot will almost always plug or squash even on rock or water. It just so happens that 25 degrees elevation is a close approximation to that angle for anything from 0.303" up to 16" projectiles.

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 17:35 pm 
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czartan wrote:
My current projects are "En Garde" using Redoubt miniatures musketeer figures and refighting Falkirk Muir using paper soldiers
Sounds interesting...I was thinking (a while back) of getting into wargaming with paper soldiers. Any Pics?

Paws4thot wrote:
What you can say is that above a certain angle of incidence shot will almost always plug or squash even on rock or water. It just so happens that 25 degrees elevation is a close approximation to that angle for anything from 0.303" up to 16" projectiles.
So basically, the "bounce stick" (if the shot is at the 25° angle) is valid for most ground conditions? Plug or squash ? I´m Intrigued :)

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Apr 2017 17:36 pm 
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PS...discussion of the rules etc and others wargames is what I hoped would happen :thumb: :)

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PostPosted: Tue 25 Apr 2017 13:36 pm 
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@PaulH - Ricochet is a posh word for "bounce". This happens when the angle of incidence is such that the projectile's energy isn't absorbed by the terrain it hits (and as a plus water counts as terrain so this even works for naval games).

Plugging occurs when the angle of incidence on soft ground is such that the projectile digs in.

Squashing (or fragmenting) is like plugging, but on hard ground. In fact, on rock a cast iron shot would shatter, and produce a shower of fragments. It's quite possible that observing this effect during the Peninsular War is what gave Henry Shrapnel the idea which led to the eponymous shells (which would have been known and probably used in larger guns during the ACW).

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