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PostPosted: Tue 02 May 2017 19:20 pm 
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Hi everybody
Please place any reference material you may have concerning RAF vehicles here . . .
Ian

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PostPosted: Sat 06 May 2017 08:12 am 
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Some doubts about wartime RAF vehicle colours

Hi guys, the most reliable source for WW2 British military vehicle camouflage colours is, as far as I know, Mike Starmers list. http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/starmer%20camo.htm
Very useful information.

Only, I am not sure if this includes RAF vehicles. Any of you know?

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PostPosted: Wed 07 Jun 2017 18:29 pm 
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For those wanting to build the K2 ambulance, although never used by the RAF, here is a link to one being used by the Americans under reverse 'Lend-Lease'.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205200210

Ian

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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2017 09:24 am 
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Anybody have a copy of John Church's plan of the Light Utility Ambulance body for 5cwt?
Mine's disappeared just because I want it to put one of the Standards I'm building.

EDIT: It is, of course, one of those in the Airfix Magazine Guide. :hithead:

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                 ,Total '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 '11
HURRICANE: 230 ,,,8,,,13 ,37  ,,9,,, 9   17          
SPITFIRE:     183 ,,26,,,,4,,,,4,,, 0    4   16        


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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2017 15:29 pm 
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I shall look that up . . .

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PostPosted: Mon 26 Jun 2017 21:12 pm 
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Conversion of the K6 from the Emergency set taken from the Airfix Guide 27: Modelling RAF vehicles.
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The rear body measures 29mm wide X 60mm long.
Ian

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jul 2017 21:39 pm 
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I mentioned that Airfix produced a number of articles in their modeller journal, 'Airfix Magazine for the Modeller' Dated around 1969 + 1970.

Here are just a few examples that I have . . .
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

You may have realised that a number of these are NOW available as kits, both QL's and even some as resin conversions or as a diecast model.
For those really keen on building as a conversion, then a number are available as full articles in the Airfix Modelling Guide No 27 but also quite a few conversions are found in this guide . . .
Image

Hope this give some of you ideas for reference sources
Ian

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Jul 2017 21:49 pm 
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Big issue of contention is the fact that the Airfix RAF Emergency K6 is not a wartime vehicle . . .
An issue in the Airfix magazine dated October 1970 shows a conversion to a 'CO2 carrier'

Image

If I post it vertically the size is much reduced.
There is a colour guide written up for the type build including 'Wartime', Late War, Post-war (1) and Post-war (2)

Ian

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PostPosted: Mon 10 Jul 2017 22:38 pm 
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Is anybody in a position to scan this full article from 1970 that could possibly assist Paul H with his build please ??

Image

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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 09:06 am 
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I believe I have it. It was in an issue of Scale Models IIRC.

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                 ,Total '16 '15 '14 '13 '12 '11
HURRICANE: 230 ,,,8,,,13 ,37  ,,9,,, 9   17          
SPITFIRE:     183 ,,26,,,,4,,,,4,,, 0    4   16        


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 10:51 am 
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 15:15 pm 
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Here are the images of the Austin K6 Bomb Flat lorry, sent by Ted Angus . . .

Image

Image

Image


cheers,
Robin.

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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 17:36 pm 
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Thanks Malcolm for posting the full article. :thumb:
Ian

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PostPosted: Tue 11 Jul 2017 17:38 pm 
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Thank you Robin for re-submitting the photos that original were sent by Ted who has kindly consented to share them with all of us.

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PostPosted: Wed 19 Jul 2017 20:33 pm 
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I note there are threads on paint schemes for RAF vehicles, but does anyone have any more comprehensive information about what all the markings on RAF vehicles means please? As far as I can tell they need to have a small roundel on the front left (as you face the vehicle), some serials starting with "RAF" for WW2 vehicles, and they may have a B/ number eg B/3 representing Bomber Command 3 Group. Thank you.

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PostPosted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 00:35 am 
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Great vehicles guys, but remember RAF Blue is a bit of a 'no no' on vehicles built in WW2 and used by the RAF as so is a green roof, mickey mouse design over SCC.2 Brown , so dig out the black or very dark brown to go over it!


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PostPosted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 06:44 am 
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Last edited by Powder on Wed 20 Sep 2017 08:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 14 Sep 2017 07:29 am 
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I think you need to research your dates Larry.
RAF Blue-Grey certainly wasnt used during the war but also it wasnt MM camouflage from day one and several schemes were employed . . . .

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PostPosted: Fri 15 Sep 2017 00:55 am 
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I've been studying RAF vehicle camo schemes for decades (especially those in the UK) and I know that vehicles built pre-war in RAF blue were used in the early war period circa the Phoney War 1939-40. I have seen photos of Ford Sussex Balloon winches exactly like the one in RAF Museum that were in RAF Blue with black mudguards, often edged in white. RAF Blue vehicles with Black mudguards was in fact a pre-war idea and resurrected in 1946.

Around the BoB there is some evidence of Green over Brown (similar to a Spitfire in Humbrol 30 over Humbrol 29) but this was perhaps unofficial and doesn't appear on vehicles built after that period. Colour photos of the RAF in the UK dating from 1940 are extremely rare and anyone studying the subject has to be wary of colourised black and white photos. However a few photos do exist, even as movie film. If by chance you saw a TV programme called 'Dig 1940' concerning the Battle of Britain you might have caught a glimpse of a camouflaged RAF truck in the back ground of a very rare 'home movie' shot in colour by William H. Rhodes Moorhouse, who flew Hawker Hurricanes in the BoB with 601 Sqn. As the film panned across a group of pilots, an RAF truck in green and brown camouflage can be seen in the background. The home movie is thought to have been taken at Tangmere in June 1940 (but certainly no later than 6th September 1940 when sadly Rhodes-Moorhouse was killed while in action over Kent). To me it looked like the truck was in exactly the same colours as used on the Hurricanes - not that I'm claiming it was painted with the same paint! In fact there has been much conjecture as to the type of paint used; with some pointing out that paint used on aircraft was not suitable for vehicles, while others claim the paint was of a type used to camouflage buildings. It has also been suggested that the RAF Stations simply acquired the paint they required from local sources and had it ready for release of their AMO locked in a safe and only be acted upon in case of war.

Forgetting the above for the moment, which may have been an emergency measure, the RAF soon adopted colours for its vehicles and copied the Army; firstly the most common was Green G3 base colour and Green G4 used over it with dark disruptive camo stripes and I have photo evidence that shows this in use from 1940. After the G3/G4 Greens came the SCC.2 Brown in 1941-42 as base colour as the chemicals for G3 were in short supply. For the RAF a base colour of SCC.2 brown was quite normal without camo as seen on AEC Matador Bowsers etc. If camo was used the typical camo for the 1942 period was diagonal stripes in a much darker colour such as SCC1a very dark brown. After diagonal / wavy style camo over SCC.2 Brown, a new 'Mikey Mouse' style camo pattern was introduced still using SCC.2 Brown as the base colour, circa 1942. However Mike Starmer offers no evidence that the upper surfaces were ever green; only SCC1a very dark brown or SCC.14 black. After all the idea for this camo style was to greatly darken upper surfaces to reduce the light reflected, hence the need at that time for quite a dark upper surface. Once the SCC.15 Olive Drab came in to use in 1944 there was less need to use camo so an overall colour of Olive Green became quite normal, and very late war some vehicles used around aircraft had yellow cabs such as AEC Matadors or bonnets as on David Brown Tractors.

What I describe above is a brief summary for the UK based RAF only.

My point is not to be offensive and please accept my apologies if I have offended anyone.

What I want to explain is that when painting RAF vehicles we need to be mindful of when they were made. While an early paint scheme on an early produced vehicle is quite OK and for it to stay that way well past the time when newer schemes came along, or even have a new scheme on an old vehicle. But it wouldn't be OK to put an early war camo scheme on a late war produced vehicle, hence RAF Blue paint scheme being wrong on a vehicle built in 1942. Loads of Aircraftsmen disobeyed orders in the war, especially ones with a brush and paint pot in their hands but only so far, as their Warrant Officer would no doubt have more important things for them to do, so variations only occured up to a point.

I hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Sat 16 Sep 2017 17:42 pm 
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Some photos to support the above;

This one freely available from the IWM, shows in my opinion, an Crossley Truck still in RAF Blue. Sadly the date of the photo is not stated but the related IWM photos say June 1940 plus camo on the sides of the Whitley has not been replaced by black, so that is pre-November 1940.

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205208454


Last edited by LarryH57 on Sun 17 Sep 2017 19:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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