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 Post subject: Panzerkampfwagen 38(t)
PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec 2012 17:29 pm 
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Two 38(t)s outside the Military Museum in Tehran. Not sure of the origins of these two tanks,but both have unusual turrets with rounded mantlet and no co-axial machine-gun
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec 2012 19:18 pm 
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I can't be definitely sure, but the gun looks like a dummy, so ...

My guess is that this is either a command tank (Befehlswagen 30(t)) or Flammpanzer 38 (t).

If there was a trailer behind the tank, then I'd be confident of the latter. Without it, I lean towards the former.

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PostPosted: Tue 04 Dec 2012 20:34 pm 
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Seems a bit advanced for a dummy gun,normally a bit of pipe welded to the turret was ok. Possibly a local conversion by the Persians as I've not seen any other 38(t)s like these.


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012 19:11 pm 
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See here.

Top of P. 5, it indicates that the guns are fake. However, the tanks were normal export versions prior to the real guns being removed and the face of the turrets being altered.

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PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012 20:27 pm 
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Nice bit of research,but we are still non the wiser.If I'd known,I would have tried to take a picture of the rear of the tanks. More of a delve required. Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012 21:11 pm 
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Just because it look likes a Pz 38(t) doesn't mean that it is a 38(t). That is a CKD-TNH built by Praga for the Iranian Army in 1935, 50 of them were exported and they served until the 1950's. I can't explain the armament as they were armed with the 37mm vz34 (Skoda  A-3) which certainly didn't look like that.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/

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PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012 21:26 pm 
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trevor13:499414 wrote:
Nice bit of research,but we are still non the wiser.If I'd known,I would have tried to take a picture of the rear of the tanks. More of a delve required. Thanks

I don't know why you would say that we're not wiser.

We have an indication that the guns are fake, which seems reasonable to me. We know that Iran ordered the TNH. That document states that the guns were removed and replaced with dummies. That's good enough for me.

The TNH was an export version of the 38(t). It is just a version of the 38(t). The differences, apart from the gun, are little more than semantic. The Germans referred to modified TNHs (intended as export to Sweden) as Pzkw 38(t) Ausf A. The modifications probably included the gun and radio sets.

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PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012 21:37 pm 
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It certainly looks like they were fitted with the normal gun mount at some point,perhaps the original guns were replaced due to lack of spares or ammo? I've seen all the US planes and copters grounded at Tehran Airport for no spares!


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PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012 21:46 pm 
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Brews:499429 wrote:
trevor13:499414 wrote:
Nice bit of research,but we are still non the wiser.If I'd known,I would have tried to take a picture of the rear of the tanks. More of a delve required. Thanks

I don't know why you would say that we're not wiser.

We have an indication that the guns are fake, which seems reasonable to me. We know that Iran ordered the TNH. That document states that the guns were removed and replaced with dummies. That's good enough for me.

The TNH was an export version of the 38(t). It is just a version of the 38(t). The differences, apart from the gun, are little more than semantic. The Germans referred to modified TNHs (intended as export to Sweden) as Pzkw 38(t) Ausf A. The modifications probably included the gun and radio sets.


The TNK wasn't an export version of the 38(t), it was a predecessor of the 38(t) being built a full three years before that tank.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012 06:17 am 
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Alanmccoubrey:499435 wrote:
The TNK wasn't an export version of the 38(t), it was a predecessor of the 38(t) being built a full three years before that tank.

I assume that TNK is a typo. TNH is referenced in the first para on this page.

You're right in that the TNH appeared before the 38(t) or its Czech designation(LT vz38). At least, Wikipedia agrees with you there :) I note, however, that the Wiki entry for the TNH considers it to be a variant of the Pzkw 38(t)/LT vz38, albeit an export version for which Iran was the first customer of the type.

It might be reasonable to consider Iran's purchase as an export order for 50 prototypes. Either way, I'd need more evidence to consider it as anything other than a 38(t) variant.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012 17:35 pm 
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Of course it was a typo.

I'm afraid that Wiki is misleading you. According to Doyle and Kliment's book "Czechoslovak AFV 1918-1945" the CKD-TNH was a part of the series of tanks which culminated in the 38(t). They were all built for exprt to such countries as Latvia, Peru , Sweden, Switzerland  and Iran , starting with Iran in 1935.
There is a picture in the book of the fully equipped turret of the TNH and it appears to me that the modern museum piece has the "gun" mounted in what was the co-ax MG mounting, you can just make out a blanking plate to our right of the cbarrel.

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